Talking with the Thabas Season 1 Workbook

A: Abi: “If Caleb and I are fighting, my dad might come and say Abi say one thing you like about Caleb and Caleb, name one thing you like about Abi.” Anna Catherine: “The reason they do that is so that we don’t always think about the bad in each other and hate each other, but also think about the good.” We try to be intentional about training their minds to see the good in each other and in the circumstances they face. They are really good about focusing on the negative (Aren’t we all!?). But, life is so much happier when we cast our attention to the positive and not the negative that surrounds us. When they are fighting, the only thing they can see is how awful that sibling is. By training them to STOP and forcing them to say one positive thing, we are actually training them to refocus their mind and change directions away from hate to love. Once they have done that, we debrief, “How do you feel now? Do you feel happier now that you are being nice or did you feel happier when you were yelling, crying and full of anger?” They will usually say they feel happier now that they are both being complimented by the other. Then, we explain, “You have the choice to be happy or sad/mad by what you choose to think about and speak out.” We believe this is a good skill they will use for years to come when it seems like life is throwing them lots of hard situations to deal with and the natural reaction is to whine and complain. Q: Kids, have your parents taught you anything about money? A: The kids went on to explain their ice-pop business. You can watch the episode to hear that from them. We are very intentional about teaching them about money. At the grocery store, I (Ashley) explain why I am buying what I am buying and why I am not buying this or that. When their friends get various things that we don’t buy, we show them our budget and explain why that isn’t a smart purchase. When we are considering an investment, we explain to them some of the pros and cons and get them involved in the decision making process in order to expose them to financial principles early on. We give them chores to do in addition to their normal household chores for opportunities to make money. In summary, we spend a lot of time explaining to them where our money comes from, what the value of various things is, and why it is important to save and spend wisely. Q: Do you have DSTV? (Cable TV) A: Abi: “That is one of my dreams!” We actually just got a TV that would show our government channel (BTV) when our show, Talking with the Thabas, began to air because we needed to be able to watch If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 100

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Children it for production feedback purposes. Other than that, we have gone our entire marriage without DSTV. There is nothing wrong with TV. Clearly, we are using it as a medium to get positive messages out to families. However, we are just so busy that we realized TV is going to tempt us to not spend the little free time we do have together. So, we made the decision early on that we wouldn’t bring the temptation and distraction into our marriage so that our free time was spent intentionally in ways that bonded us rather than simply sharing oxygen in the same room, but not connecting in some way. NOW – even when we didn’t have DSTV, we did have a DVD player and an old TV that could only play the DVD player. We were intentional about buying wholesome DVDs and used those as rewards for the kids to watch movies on weekends. We also must add that we do have internet, lest you wonder what age we are living in that we don’t have access to entertainment!  Q: Don’t you feel like you are depriving your children when their friends have these nice things and they don’t? A: Anna Catherine: “The reason our parents don’t want us to watch too much TV is because it might cause fights if we all are wanting to watch. My parents also don’t want us to get exposed to things we don’t need to be exposed to. Caleb: “If we have the TV, we probably won’t go out and play with our friends because we would just sit in front of the TV all day.” Anna Catherine: “My parents don’t want us to become like zombies who just sit on the couch and veg out watching TV.” In the absence of TV, we have observed that they read books; they come up with the most creative games; they learn to play well together; they go outside and exercise; they play in the dirt and climb trees; they volunteer to help with household chores if they are really bored. Basically, without TV, they are challenged to do things with their time that add value to their life. It is also important that we teach our children that acquiring things simply because their friends have them isn’t healthy. That kind of attitude could turn them into very competitive and unsatisfied adults one day. We probably are admittedly extreme. We understand that and also we want to stress that this is what works for us! It won’t work for everyone and that is okay!  It is not a cookie cutter solution where every family will look the same. Our intention is not to say our way is the best way. We are simply sharing some strategies that have worked for us. Take some. Leave some. But, please use these discussions to start great conversations about how you want to be intentional about raising good kids and keeping your home a happy healthy place!  Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 101

Q: What does a typical evening for your family look like? A: Anna Catherine: “In the evening, we usually all go into the kitchen together and cook dinner together. Everyone has a chore to do to make dinner. Then, we all eat together and talk about our day. Afterwards we have devotional, take showers and go to bed.” Q: Where can parents get information on how they can come up with alternatives to what they have been doing? A: We hope this book and watching our show has given you some great ideas and gotten your mind thinking around some new fun things to add to your current routines and child raising experience. There are also other great books out there, Facebook pages you can join, or just talk to your friends and family to see what is working for them. We are all on this journey together and it is good for us to just talk about what is working and not working so we can learn from one another. Below are questions for YOU to do either alone or with your spouse to help you deal more deeply with this issue of Children. Q: Do you feel your spouse does a good job of balancing attention between you and the children? IF not, can you GENTLY and POLITELY state a few PRACTICAL ACTIONS they could do to make you feel more important and valued in your home? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: God says children are a gift from the Lord. What role do you feel you should play in your children’s life? What are your goals of the things you need to impart into them before they leave your house? What are you doing to make those things happen? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 102

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Children __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Write down 2 activities you enjoy doing with your spouse (without the kids) and 2 activities you enjoy doing with the kids and your spouse (as a full family) that make you feel CLOSER to your spouse. __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Rate on a scale of 1-10 how united you feel with your spouse in matters regarding raising the children. __________. What can you do to get that number up to a 10? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Do the two of you feel you picked up some tips you might want to try in your home with regards to how you are raising your children? Write them below. __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Do you feel you give into your children too often? How did this episode encourage you and what actions can you take to regain authority and control in your home so Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 103

that you can be the ones in charge of making sure you set healthy boundaries that will help your children? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: We said despite the fact children are a blessing, sometimes they can cause a lot of strain on a marriage if the couple isn’t careful. How do you feel your children contribute to your marital intimacy? Is there something you can do to improve this area? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: What are your thoughts on the role of a man in the early days of a child’s life? What is your ideal of the role of a man in any stage of a child’s life? Is this an area that needs reevaluation in your family? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: How much say do you believe culture and the extended family should have in the decisions you make regarding your nuclear family? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 104

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Children __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Was there anything said by one of the kids that struck you as inspirational that you want to spend more time analyzing? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: We spoke about the importance of having a family devotional. Do you feel that is something of value and if it is not currently happening in your home, what plan could you make to include that into your regular routine? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Were there any lessons that were taught in this episode you found particularly insightful that you would like to look into adapting into your family? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 105

Conflict Resolution We have spoken to so many couples over the years that will proudly say “We never fight!” We worry at this because this just isn’t possible. Either you are not being honest with each other so you don’t fight because you don’t share anything that might be controversial, or you aren’t telling the truth. The fact is you cannot take two selfish independent humans and put them under the same roof to share finances, children, and household chores and it won’t cause some conflict. It just is not possible to agree on everything! We each have our own way of dealing with issues. Clearly, we think our way is best or we wouldn’t be doing it! We have our own habits, mannerisms, and opinions on why and how things need to be done the “right way”. As time passes and more time is spent together, it is normal for these quirks to begin to get on the nerves of those who are around us the most. Although conflict is completely normal, most of us do not enjoy dealing with it, so we find ways to avoid it. The problem is that every time we avoid a conflict and don’t freely share what we really think, little things begin to build up within us, preventing emotional intimacy, trust, and freedom. As we harbor these conflicting thoughts, it bring internal stress to ourselves and external stress to our marriages. Even if these stresses aren’t verbalized, they will eventually manifest into something unpleasant. We learned early on that although conflict is not enjoyable, it is better if we just deal with it head on, because after it is dealt with there is freedom, joy and love. As we offload our honest emotions and deal with them honestly, love is able to penetrate and flow through those spaces that were filled with frustration, bitterness, and anger. We would like to share with you some of the effective tools that have helped us deal with conflict in order to help you find more peace and honesty in your life and relationships. Q: Are there any conflicts that are too minor or is this a matter of knowing how to pick your battles? A: No conflict is too small. If something bothers your spouse, then whatever it is deserves your attention as a couple. However, there is wisdom in first analyzing whether this is a problem within you or the other person. Sometimes the fact that something bothers us is more of an indication in a weakness in us than the other person. For example, if you always find yourself nagging, maybe you have a problem with learning to be content and not fault finding. However, if you do an honest assessment and feel this really is something that bothers you, then you should bring it up. If you are in doubt that it is a big deal, you can say that. “When you did this, it rubbed me the wrong way. It isn’t something we need to deal with if you don’t want to, but I did want to be honest that it bothered If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 106

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Conflict Resolution me when you said/did this or that.” Don’t trivialize anything because small things quickly become big things when they build up. Also, learning to resolve small issues successfully better prepares you with the skills to deal with bigger issues. Q: What are some methods you have found practical to deal with conflict? A: 1) Sandwich method – say a positive thing, the negative thing (area for constructive criticism), then another positive thing. Making it Example 1: I am so grateful you put the energy into preparing dinner Practical tonight. Do you mind if I am honest though that I actually don’t really enjoy eating this particular dish? Again, I am so thankful that you are always serving me, and I usually enjoy all your tasty meals. Example 2: You are such a great father; we are blessed to have you in our home. I have noticed though that you aren’t spending enough quality time with our son, when you yelled at him yesterday, I think you really hurt him badly. Could you please go and talk to him? I know he will appreciate that because you have always shown yourself to be a father who is attentive and loving so I believe he will forgive this mistake. The benefit of this method is that the person hears that they are good and not all bad. Most of the time, we are quick to criticize but not so quick to compliment. The result is that people either tune off because they hate to be told how bad they are, or they feel so defeated that they lose the desire to even try because it seems like all you ever see is the negative anyway. Plus, even for you, the one bringing up the issue, it is a good mental exercise to force yourself to see 2 positives to every negative so that you also don’t unintentionally dwell on the negative and see your spouse in a bad light. 2) Focus on ONE CURRENT problem at a time. It is so important to bring up each issue as soon as possible because if not, what happens, is you are remembering everyone and when you finally start talking about your issues, weeks of piled up hurts spill over and make it almost impossible to solve all the issues raised. There is wisdom in bringing ONE issue at a time. Solve it and move on. Also, be very careful not to keep bringing up past issues. SOLVE it fully and move on. Forgive and learn from mistakes and move on. It is demoralizing to keep bringing up an issue you thought was dealt with over and over. 3) Use “I feel” rather than “you”. We dealt with this in depth in the episode on Communication so please go back and read that for further clarification. Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 107

Making it To make it practical, we will share a personal story. Throughout this Practical story, we hope you will be able to relate and imagine yourself with your own issue and be encouraged with some practical tips of how to solve real life issues. I (Ashley) was speaking with an employee. I had been doing something kind for her, but it wasn’t something I was contractually obligated to do. That particular month, I wasn’t able to do it and she was upset. It was clear it had become an expectation she felt entitled to have. Now that I couldn’t give it instead of being grateful for the times I had given above and beyond there was anger I wasn’t able to continue. I was frustrated because I felt taken for granted and even disappointed that now my generosity was actually coming back to “bite” me. I needed to explain calmly and rationally so that I felt she understood clearly what we had agreed would be her monthly payment and differentiate what was just me, as a person who loved her, doing to be kind to top up when I could. I knew enough about conflict resolution to know if we did NOT deal with it, she would keep quiet and silently be mad thinking I had cheated her without really understanding the issue. I wanted to deal with it then while the matter was fresh. Meanwhile, time had slipped away and it was time for a meeting Percy and I had already scheduled with a friend visiting from South Africa. Percy walked in, “It’s time to go.” I responded that I needed a few more minutes to deal with something. Being a person who is meticulous with keeping time, he wasn’t willing to wait. He literally grabbed my arm, said to our employee, “She will talk to you later,” and pulled me towards the car. When we got into the car, I was fuming! I was still frustrated with the employee and now equally frustrated Percy couldn’t wait 5-10 minutes for me to solve this issue. I felt belittled and undermined the way he didn’t respect my desire to finish a conversation that was important to me. To further compound my frustration, he proceeds to say, “Let’s pray.” When I voiced that I wasn’t in the mood to pray, he told me to just drop the previous issue as if I could just flip a switch and suddenly forget I was hurt! He proceeded to pray anyway. Of course, out of stubbornness, I didn’t join him nor did I say Amen showing in any way I was in agreement. I sat silently as he then began to lecture me on the importance of saying Amen to show we were united in praying. I was FUMING now! I felt like a child he was reprimanding, and I had just been “reprimanded” by my employee for not giving her this thing she wanted. In neither situation did I feel like I was in the wrong! I felt no one was understanding me. (Being misunderstood is a typical reason for feeling upset. Percy may not have been able to solve my issue, but he would have been smarter to get in the car and apologize for being insensitive for If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 108

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Conflict Resolution pulling me out of an important meeting and just let me vent and share my hurts rather than demeaning me and encouraging me to pretend like it didn’t bother me.) We arrived at our meeting and had a wonderful meeting with our friend. After an hour spent with him, we felt refreshed and encouraged and honestly, the previous fight was no longer even on our minds. However, for us, because we have made a promise to deal with every issue, we both knew we had to deal with it. It doesn’t mean we WANTED to though! I decided to forge ahead into the undesirable waters, but not without a final stab! Ha! “I will be the bigger person and bring up this issue we never solved.” Note: this is a good example of what NOT to say! Percy was not going to stand for that, and honestly I was in the wrong for bringing it up in such a way that I started the conversation by insulting him and elevating me! He stated we would listen to worship music and each pray and talk later. Later, true to his word, when he was ready, he did bring it up. My amazing husband brought it up the correct way – with humility and a desire to listen wholeheartedly by saying, “Okay, I am ready to deal with that issue. I want to understand your feelings and why you snapped at me in the car. I know it isn’t like you to respond so rudely so you must have been hurt.” NOW, that is a way to get a person talking!! Acknowledge their good points and show a desire to understand WHY they were rude. Deal with the ROOT instead of the fruit of the mean word spoken! Under his kind attentive eyes, I began to pour out my heart and share all the painful emotions I had experienced throughout the conflict with my employee and subsequently him. He listened patiently, nodded compassionately, and held my hand as I vented demonstrating in a non-verbal way that he was completely sympathetic. He then did “active listening” (go back to the chapter on communication to learn more about this). He voiced back to me, “I can understand now why you were hurt. You felt that I marginalized you. You would have preferred that I validate that your feelings were genuine and your hurt was real. Just because I didn’t feel those emotions didn’t mean I should have acted as if you didn’t have the right to feel that way without making you feel guilty.” He further proceeded to do something even more wonderful. During our fight in the car before the meeting, he had called me some mean names. Typically, we are actually pretty good about fighting with feelings and not hurling insults at each other, but he called me stubborn. Those are insults that accuse a person’s character. That is way more hurtful than dealing with one specific word spoken in a particular incident. He acknowledged this was wrong of him to name call and asked for my forgiveness. Of course, by this time, I felt overwhelming love and gratitude to have such a considerate and awesome husband! He completely had my forgiveness and feelings of love were restored with additional emotional intimacy because now I felt I could share my heart with him concerning the employee as well. We then worked Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 109

together on a plan for how I would handle the conversation I still would need to have with my employee. Team Thaba was back up and running!  Let’s sum up the applicable lessons you can learn from our story:  Deal with issues immediately, even if it is uncomfortable.  Always try and hear why another person is hurting. Sometimes it has nothing to do with you!  When you bring up the conflict, start by admitting your faults in it. That will soften the other person to admit their faults also.  Never name call! Deal with the emotions felt because of the conflict but don’t insult their character.  When you apologize, be specific with what you did wrong.  Ask for forgiveness when all is dealt with and ensure the issue is completely dealt with before you put it away and now only refer back to it when you are laughing about it later. Q: How do you deal with a situation where you think you have dealt with an issue and it keeps coming back up? A: When there is a conflict, it means a need has not been met. The first step is to identify the need. This is important to make sure you deal with the real issue. Otherwise, you might find you spend a long time talking, but actually never solve the ROOT issue, which is why the “fruit” keeps coming up making you feel the issue is never dealt with despite the fact you keep talking about it. The next step is to identify whether the need can be solved. Is there a solution that has an action plan the two of you can derive? If it can’t be solved or perhaps the solution is time consuming and difficult, then you will need to figure out how to manage the conflict, which will require negotiations and compromises. For example, maybe there are constant fights about one of you working all the time. The “Need” is one spouse is not having their NEED of quality time met and feels a lack of emotional intimacy. That is the UNDERLYING NEED. When you really discuss it, you realize that the person can’t quit their job, so now it requires you to look at reality and decide what compromises can be made to maximize on the time that is available to meet that need. Make this plan actionable and measurable. For example, say to get started this week, we will … If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 110

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Conflict Resolution Once you have either solved the issue or come up with a plan to manage the issue, then look each other in the eye and ask, “Is this dealt with? Right now you have my total attention, so I will be hurt if you bring this up tomorrow when I have asked you to be honest with me right now and share your heart about any unresolved issues still outstanding.” Do not ASSUME because the two of you have talked until you are exhausted that the issue is resolved. One person might have just stopped talking because they were tired, not because they felt it was dealt with. This is where it takes patience and willingness to be open and honest if you want to achieve emotional intimacy and prevent “small” fights from cropping up out of the “root” issue. The Bible says in 1 Corinthians 13:5d “love doesn’t keep a record of wrongs”. The issue might come back up again because it is a character issue, but when it comes back, deal with that recent problem, don’t be a lawyer in a courtroom who has been withholding condemning evidence to strengthen your case and prove you are right and the other person is wrong. Q: Where and when is the best time to resolve the conflict? A: We will give a few specific pointers below 1) If tensions are too high, it is okay to declare an “intermission”. Agree to take a break for a designated time where both of you will cool off and gather your thoughts into a logical manner that will help you deal with this issue productively. Agree on a specific time, within 5 minutes or an hour to meet back to discuss. DO NOT JUST WALK OFF without a plan of when to reconvene. That will start secondary fights! 2) The Bible says “Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry” (Ephesians 4:26). For us, we have made an agreement that we will not go to sleep at night until an issue is solved. Sometimes, that means throughout the day when something arose we told each other, “This is not the time to deal with this but we aren’t going to sleep tonight until it is dealt with.” That works if something comes up when you are around other people who don’t need to hear you discuss this and you can’t leave at that moment. Others say they don’t deal with issues well when they are tired so for those couples they might need to set another time, but the point is don’t delay! 3) If you are with your children when the fight occurs, try by all means to get away to a private place to conclude. When you return, explain to your children what the issue was and admit where you went wrong if applicable. It is GOOD for our children to learn healthy conflict resolution strategies, so model this so you are training them how to deal with the conflicts they will inevitable encounter. They also can have many questions like whether you two are going Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 111

to get divorced, whether you are still mad at each other, if they are the problem, etc. So it is good to set their little minds at ease by explaining at a level they understand but be as honest as possible. Making it Let me (Ashley) give a practical. (This is not a true story, but the Practical first one that came to mind when I tried to think of an example). Let’s say I promised to come write this book. Percy, being supportive, said he would take care of cooking dinner and doing devotional with the kids so that I wouldn’t be disturbed. Exhausted, 2 hours later, he comes back to find that I have been chatting on the phone to a friend and never even opened the document. He explodes saying, “I had to deal with the kids, make dinner and clean the kitchen and you have been back here just chatting?!?!” The kids run in to see what all the fuss is about. They hear their names. They hear angry tones. They ask why we are talking about them. We tell them, “Kids, mommy and daddy need to talk. Please close the door.” After we had solved the issue, we would go back to the children. (This example would be solved by me completely apologizing and perhaps even coming up with a solution that if the phone was a weakness in the future, I would give him the phone to hold me accountable to focusing on the task at hand). When we went to the kids, we might not have to give them all the details, but rather we could say something like this: “Kids, I (Ashley) made a promise to daddy to do something. I didn’t keep my promise. He kept his promise. You know how bad it feels when someone promises you something and doesn’t keep their word. That is why daddy got mad. He shouldn’t have yelled at me, but I also should have done what I said I would do. I apologized to daddy and daddy has also apologized to me and we’ve forgiven each other. We hugged and made up and all is well. We just wanted you to know so you don’t think we are still fighting.” The kids now go to bed without having to analyze, worry, speculate and wonder why there is so much tension in the house. 4) To answer the “where” issue, it needs to be in a place where you can talk without interruptions. If it is a serious issue, that means you need to turn off your phone, close the door, and make sure anyone at the house/office knows you are not to be disturbed. There are bound to be secondary issues that rise if you keep trying to solve something and something keeps preventing you from finishing your thoughts or freely sharing your heart. Q: When you have been offended, is it possible for you to forgive and forget? A: You can always forgive. To forget is a conscience choice to move the relationship forward. Once the other has said they are sorry and you are both agreeing the issue has been dealt with, it is unhealthy to keep bringing it up. This is the time to force your mind to think about the positives if your mind keeps wanting to go back and relive that incident drawing you back into a negative place. If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 112

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Conflict Resolution Ephesians 4:31-32 “31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. 32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.” (Emphasis added) We believe God has called us to love for one another, but we believe that Satan leads us to think thoughts that are not loving in order to rob us of the gift of peace, love and joy in our marriage. We have made a decision not to give him that power to steal our peace in our marriage and in our minds so we take captive any thought that is not productive to our marriage (2 Corinthians 10:5) Q: What if the person says, “Well, if you say I am wrong, then I am sorry?” A: It is important when solving conflict to have identified the root cause and the other person needs to take ownership so that it is very clear exactly what you are sorry about. This allows for true forgiveness if the other is sure that you have acknowledged your wrong doing and have expressed remorse and promised to try and not repeat that hurtful action. Many times in a fight, one person will say all these things you have done wrong. You simply respond, “Okay, I am sorry.” Without being specific about what you are sorry about, the person is left to wonder if you are really sorry or you just wanted to get out of that uncomfortable situation and avoid the conversation all together. Plus, it is hard to fix a problem when you never acknowledged there WAS a problem! If you have a spouse that says something similar to this, you could ask them to explain why you think it was wrong. Empathy is probably the best tool you can use to solve conflict. Seek by all means to put yourself in their shoes and really understand why they feel what they feel. Sometimes, it is a misunderstanding and by seeking clarification and availing yourself to hear their side of the story, you realize that you actually didn’t do anything wrong but were simply misunderstood. Again, that is why it is very important to get to the ROOT issues and really talk about why that action hurt that person. Making it Let me (Ashley) give an example of a misunderstanding that if not dealt Practical with would become a bigger issue. Percy comes home from work and says “Dinner isn’t ready.” Three words only! I interpret those words to be judgmental and condescending! Surely this is a snide remark at how bad of a wife and mother I am that he would come home and not find dinner ready on the table! Frustrated, I respond angrily, “Dinner’s not ready!? You know I have been working too all day! It isn’t like I was sitting at home twiddling my thumbs! You take me for granted!” I had a NEED to fill appreciated. His comment was innocent, but I interpreted it wrongly. Early in our marriage, he probably would have responded with a comment Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 113

about how sensitive I was and how I needed to watch my tone of voice with him. Perhaps he would have walked off saying something like, “you are impossible! I can’t say anything right in your eyes so why try! I am going to get fast food for dinner!” Now, I am mad because I actually had begun dinner preparation and now he isn’t going to eat what I actually had tried to make him. I am mad that he thinks I am being difficult when he doesn’t know what difficult is until he deals with 3 children under 5 years old all day! The fight would have escalated into something unhealthy quickly simply because of inability to get to the ROOT cause and be EMPATHETIC. Now my wise husband would say something empathetic like, “Gosh, where did that angry outburst come from? Did you have a stressful day? Do you need help preparing dinner? I don’t want dinner preparation to add more stress.” I would probably then collapse into his arms telling him how awful the day was. He would then shower me with more love, hugs and comforting words. Having my burden lifted, we would now happily cook dinner together. I would keep looking at him with starry love filled eyes so thankful my knight in shining armor had come home to rescue me from the kids and overwhelming household chores. Do you see how the way we respond makes all the difference? Sometimes your spouse yells at you and it has NOTHING to do with you. You just caught them at a bad time. Your response is everything! Always try and understand where they are coming from FIRST. That way you don’t just roll your eyes and say, “Okay, if you think I am wrong, then I am sorry.” You have the chance to become the hero in this story. Q: What if your partner withdraws from conflict? You want to talk it out, and they are just remaining silent though you know they are hurting and angry. A: We need to be careful to non-verbal cues. One famous line we like to say is “Don’t worry about it.” If the body language is showing that there is still hurting, do not listen to the WORDS. Listen to the ACTIONS. Most likely, the other person is doubting if they share with you what they really think that you actually want to hear it. Perhaps they do want to resolve the issue but want to avoid setting you off and making the fight escalate to another level. Remember empathy allows you to put yourself in their shoes. As you seek to understand from the other person’s perspective, you might also find as you discuss childhood and past relationships, that the person has been scarred and keeping quiet has become a learned response to avoid some type of emotional, verbal, or physical abuse. Try and get to the root issue. This will take some patience but it is worth it if the two of you can learn to trust each other so that you can deal with your issues. If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 114

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Conflict Resolution You could say something like this, “I can hear your words that you don’t want to discuss this. However, I feel like there is something still bothering you. My desire is to have total intimacy with you (SHARE YOUR FEELINGS). Therefore, I want us to work this out. If there is something that I have done, clearly express that to me so that I can apologize. If it is something else, let me know that so together we can work on a solution. I will sit here until you are ready to talk.” At this point, if the person is open, try and reach out and touch. Non-verbal communication can be very powerful. Your soft touches, gentle shoulder massage, holding hands, strong firm hug which sends a message that you love them, etc. can melt the ice and soon the person will probably open up if they feel safe and are convinced you actually want to hear their feelings. Remember, you might be trying to erase YEARS of hurt and learned behavior. This may not be an overnight process! It will take patience, but we can testify it is SO worth it to put the energy into trying to be completely open and honest with your spouse. Q: What if sex is used to deal with conflict resolution? One spouse punishes the other person by withdrawing sex until they get what they want. A: We discussed in a previous chapter – His Needs, Her Needs. She has a need for emotional connection. Sometimes it might not be a punishment as much as a cry for help. She is struggling to meet your sexual needs because her emotional needs are outstanding. Most likely, she has told you this in some way or another, but your response made her feel you didn’t care about meeting her needs. Therefore, she will attempt to get your attention by withdrawing something that you do care about in order to help you see how important this is to her. You need to show her you are interested in HER, not just what you are getting FROM her. Therefore, the first thing we would advise is to forget about the sex at that moment and just try and do something to connect on an emotional level. If there has been a fight, solve it using the strategies above. Make sure you are truly repentant because emotional intimacy happens when the other feels they can completely trust your word. Don’t expect to say some halfhearted apology about something you keep doing repeatedly and expect that to fix everything. You must get to the ROOT issue. She no longer trusts that you are seriously sorry, therefore she is withdrawing sexually because her emotional need to trust you has been eroded. It could be that there has been no verbal fight, but if you are honest, you can evaluate that the two of you are not as close as you once were. Again, your goal is to regain emotional intimacy, trust, and security. When these qualities are present, sexual intimacy will follow soon after. Another strategy to use in this example is the role play we talked about in the chapter on communication. When times are good and you are both communicating nicely, Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 115

you can tread carefully but say, “Hey, can we discuss something? I have noticed when you are upset that you withdraw or threaten me with sex. Could we discuss why you do that and come up with a strategy that might work better to deal with our problems?” Below are questions for YOU to do either alone or with your spouse to help you deal more deeply with this issue of Conflict Resolution. Q: We gave several specific techniques we use to solve conflict. Which one was your favorite that you want to try in order to improve communication in your marriage? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: We said that there was no marriage without conflict. Do you agree? Why or why not? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Do you typically stay and work out a conflict with your spouse or you tend to leave the conflict unresolved? Are there things you can do to improve? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 116

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Conflict Resolution __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: We shared at length about the fight we had above. Could you relate? Be specific. __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: We all make mistakes all the time, but admitting to them is usually painful and hard. Do you typically admit your mistakes in a conflict or you struggle with that? What are you willing to do to improve? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Do you and your spouse have any unresolved conflict(s)? Please list them down and then agree on which one to start with – applying the tips we gave above to only deal with one issue at a time until you’ve fully resolved it. __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 117

Q: Do you and your spouse typically argue in front of your children? If yes, then what have you done or prepared to do to make sure they understand that although you argue, you’re able to forgive each other and move on. If no, then are you intentional about teaching your children on effective conflict management? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Do you and your spouse ever role play or reverse role play in anticipation of conflicts? If not, would you be willing to try these strategies out to evaluate if you really understand each other’s positions? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: One man asked what to do if the wife uses sex as a punishment to get what she wants in a fight. What did you think of that? Could you relate? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: One issue that was raised was the issue of reoccurring arguments. Could you relate? Are there reoccurring arguments that seem to never get solved in your marriage? What do you feel you can do about that based on the advice we gave? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 118

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Conflict Resolution __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: The question was asked, \"Where and when is the best time to deal with an issue?\" What did you think of our answer? Do you feel you are doing well in that area of dealing with conflict as soon as possible so it doesn’t' build up? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: What did you take away from this topic that you feel can strengthen your ability to resolve conflict more effectively in your marriage? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 119

Spirituality We have talked about intimacy, communication, finances and other important topics but there is one topic that doesn’t get talked about a lot. It is the importance of a spiritual component to your marriage. Now, before you say well, I am just not a religious person, let us explain some reasons why we think this is an important component of a good marriage. What people believe about spiritual issues shapes their entire view on life. If you two don’t share that, it can cause distance and lack of bonding on areas that are very important to you. What you believe on spiritual issues also determines how and where you give your money, how you raise your children, how you choose your friends, and where you spend a lot of your time. If you two don’t agree on that, again it is something that can cause tension. Believing in a greater power also gives your life purpose and again sharing that same purpose with your spouse is a way to continue to grow in the same direction helping you to have a similar purpose and goal in life. Another interesting point is intimacy. When you feel connected spiritually, you get to share your heart with your spouse through praying together. This is stuff you would normally only want to share with God. That emotional openness also helps create heightened physical intimacy as you are able to become totally free and vulnerable to share your heart and faith with your spouse. Q: What are the benefits of a Christian marriage? A: For us, because we both worship and follow God, that means we have introduced a superior third party into the marriage. The Bible says that God IS love. Since God is, in His very nature, love, He fills us with love for Him, for each other, and for those around us. Many times we hear couples say they don’t feel love for one another anymore. For us, it has helped us to have a “bank” to draw love from when we are running dry. Another thing we have enjoyed is that the Bible gives us clear guidelines on how to live our life abundantly. Everyone starts their marriage with the dream of going the distance, living happily ever after. The question is how do we go the distance? After the tragedy of medical negligence which rendered our son brain damaged, I (Ashley) wrote a book called “Conquering the Giants” (Side note: You can buy it on our website, https://ashleythaba.com). After writing that book, many parents began coming to me for advice. Then, I began homeschooling my children. Again, more parents started coming for advice. Everyone has one common question, “How do we If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 120

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Spirituality raise these kids better?” They are seeking advice because sadly when we give birth, these kids don’t come with manuals! Likewise, when couples start their marriage, they want the cheat sheet. How do we know how to get our happily ever after? Percy and I have found the Bible has been able to give us clear direction in every single aspect of our marriage. Let us give an analogy. Have you ever gone on a trip using a GPS? There is literally an eye in the sky that is watching your every move. You only see what is right in front of you, but the satellite which is directing your path can see the entire way to your destination. When it sees a roadblock ahead, it leads you on an alternative route to avoid the roadblock. When you have taken a wrong turn, it says “recalculating” and finds a new way to guide you safely to your destination. When it realizes that you have completely gone off course, it commands you to do a U-turn as soon as possible. Making it We have found our relationship with Jesus to be like a GPS within our Practical marriage. We believe that God is all knowing and knows our future. We believe He has a plan to prosper us and give us a great future, and our only job is to stay connected to Him and obediently follow His guidance. Like the person going to a strange travel destination who depends completely on the GPS for direction, we have chosen to depend completely on Jesus to guide our path. We both hear that same voice because of the Holy Spirit which lives inside of us. In fact, Isaiah 30:21, states, “Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, \"This is the way; walk in it.\" There have been times in our lives when we have had to change course. We have shared with you throughout this book various times such as when we moved to Botswana from America, or when I (Percy) quit my job to start my own Project Management Company. God has been that voice whispering to both of us, “You have 500 more kilometers, then prepare to turn right.” He has given us both a sense of peace with every major decision we have made because He has prepared us and guided us every step of the way. Likewise, when we make mistakes, the Bible says the Holy Spirit guides us into Truth and convicts us of our sin. Again, that voice that sees all, says, “You need to do a U-turn as soon as possible because you are going off course! That lustful thought, that complaining attitude, that selfish action, those nagging comments … it is not going to lead you to your destination of “happily ever after.” You need to repent and get back on the right path as soon as possible!!” Let me (Percy) give another example. In my profession as a Project Manager, we are taught to make SMART goals. S-specific, M-measurable, A-attainable, R-realistic, T- time-based. One of the things Ashley and I love about following the wisdom of God’s word as we read the Bible is that we feel it allows us and guides us to have “SMART” goals in our marriage. Let me give you an example. Love is something that is so abstract, an emotion which is very difficult to define. Something that is hard to define is hard to improve. Yet, the Bible in 1 Corinthians 13:4-7, describes love in a specific, measurable, attainable, realistic way. It says, “Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 121

not easily angered, it keeps no account of wrongs. Love takes no pleasure in evil, but rejoices in the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.” Using this as an example, Ashley and I have a very specific goal of what we are striving to achieve when we speak of loving one another. We can easily measure our “success” in adhering to the goal by whether we are getting easily angered, not being kind, or keeping a record of wrongs. We know that this love is attainable because the Holy Spirit, who lives inside of us, promises He will give us the strength to do anything He has called us to do. Our strength is actually found in realizing on our own, we can NOT achieve this, but the more we admit our weakness, we discover His strength! The more we willingly lay down our plans and desires, the more we have realized He guides us to a life which is exceedingly better than we could have ever thought or imagined! Space doesn’t permit, but we could give you examples of “SMART” goals when it comes to learning how to forgive one another, how often to have sex with one another, how to parent our children, how to discipline our kids, what we should think about, how much we should love money, where we should fix our eyes, how to give our money, what type of work ethic we need to have, how we should treat those in need, how to solve fights, etc.. Literally, our gracious Savior has laid out every single tool we need to use to ensure a happy marriage. Q: Do marriages work if spouses have two different faiths? A: One of the things we discuss with couples when we do pre-marital counseling is their worldview. How do you make decisions? Do you make those through the lens of a belief in a higher power? Do you make those through the lens of following the Bible or another holy book of another religion? How do you decide what is wrong and right? What guides those decisions? How important is your faith to you? What role will your faith play in raising your children, in determining how you will plan your social activities, and how you spend your money? We believe the Bible paints a good picture of how to answer this question. In 2 Corinthians 6:14-18, we are encouraged not to be unequally yoked. The picture represented here is that of two animals yoked together to plow a field. If the two animals are both around the same strength, size, and moving in the same direction, the field gets plowed with ease and efficiency. If you put a weak animal with a strong animal and yoke them together, the weak animal will get tired being pulled faster than its strength allows, and the stronger animal will become tired faster because now it is not only pulling the plow but also another animal. If you take two animals that are not focused on the same goal, the field ends up in a mess. One animal is headed this way. The other heads another direction. They fight and pull at each other, causing the other pain since they are now yoked together. The field never gets tilled, and the animals simply end up hurt and frustrated because neither got to go where they wanted to go. If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 122

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Spirituality Making it Let’s make this practical. In the question, the lady specifically asked Practical about whether a Christian and a Muslim could enjoy a happy marriage. We believe they could enjoy satisfying companionship in their marriage. They could certainly learn to communicate, meet each other’s emotional needs, find common ground, and enjoy a deep respectful friendship. There is no doubt it could be done. However, if they could not share that which shaped their very identity, they both would always feel like a huge component which had the potential to bond them was missing. Additionally, fights would definitely crop up along the marital journey. Do they both agree to go to the Mosque on Friday and church on Saturday or Sunday? If they agree each will do their own thing, then that is an important area of their individual lives which they are not sharing together. What about the kids? Is it realistic to think they will have time and desire to go to both? What if they choose one over the other? Will the other spouse not feel left out, rejected, and frustrated? What about if they both feel the desire to give money to each of their religions? Will this cause conflict as there is limited money which can be spent? If they choose to each spend their “own” money, this leads to some of the conflicting fights we discussed in the chapter of finance when a couple doesn’t see it as “our” money. What about the peace and joy one experiences internally as they have a relationship with God? If they can’t share that feeling in such a way the other person empathizes, then it is an area where they will not experience complete spiritual intimacy to join together in worship. Our point is to say, regardless of which two faiths you have, if you don’t share the same one as a couple, then we feel you will both never feel complete soul bonding intimacy that you both deeply crave. There will be a huge part of your life that the other person doesn’t share and understand. Additionally, from our experience counseling couples, it turns out that many times what happens is for the sake of peace, both detach and deny their desires to pursue their faiths with their full hearts in an attempt to compromise and find middle ground. This lukewarm following of your faith also creates internal battles as somewhere inside you know you want to be doing more to seek a personal relationship with God and you feel empty in the places God used to fill. Q: One of our audience members gave a wonderful illustration of marriage. She shared that for her, from the Bahai perspective, that they are taught marriage is like a triangle. If you are both working towards a common goal, then when the feelings of love fall away then what keeps drawing you close together is that similar focus and goal as you both continue to seek God together and separately. A: This triangle picture is indeed a beautiful illustration of a healthy marriage. We agree completely that if each individual is headed towards the same goal (the pinnacle of the triangle), then their journey will naturally bring them closer to the goal and each other. The more they connect with the Sustainer of their lives and faith, they more connected they are to each other. Below is a picture of the love triangle from the Christian perspective for a visual. Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 123

Q: What if you have been with a person in the church but you begin to realize they were just pretending? A: If you begin to notice this person is a “wolf in sheep’s clothing”, we would encourage you to call off the wedding. You might feel “in love”, but those feelings will fade and the fact that you are walking and believing in two different foundations will cause cracks as you build your family together. However, we are aware that some people are able to trick people by putting on an act and these things don’t show until after marriage vows are said. Can we just add here though that this is yet another reason why pre-marital counseling is so important? We can’t stress enough how important it is to get a third party who is objective and neutral to speak into your partnership. You might be blinded by love, but it is unlikely a counsellor will be so easily fooled. Also, let us add when you get counsel, be very clear with the person that you want their honest observations on areas you can improve. We have counselled couples who actually get offended when we share the truth as we see it. Many have stopped coming to see us because we didn’t tell them what they wanted to hear. Later many have come back and said, “I wish I would have listened to you! It would have saved me years of heartache and hurt, but I didn’t want to hear it back them because I was so in love.” On the other hand, we have had couples who have listened and actually called off their weddings! They went on to marry other people and came back to us years later thanking us profusely for having the guts to tell them what everyone else was afraid to say. Our boldness to speak the uncomfortable truth changed the course of their lives for the better. If you do somehow end up in marriage before you realize this person really doesn’t share the same love of God with you, then scripture gives some tips on that. Go study these in your own time. 1 Corinthians 7:12-15; 1 Peter 3:1-4; Titus 2:6-8; 2 Timothy 2:24-26. If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 124

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Spirituality We hope God’s word will illuminate how you can pray more effectively and live more intentionally to lead them to the Lord. For the purpose of making this practical, we will share a few tips of what to do in this case:  Pray! Never underestimate the power of prayer! Watch the episode on Substance Abuse to hear the testimony of Percy’s father taking 42 years to come to life changing faith in Christ.  Invite them to join you, but not nagging them. Simply consistently invite but don’t annoyingly pressure them with incessant begging. God needs to change the heart. It is doubtful your begging will create life change, but the fact that you never gave up might soften their hearts to examine this part of your life that is so important.  Display the love of Christ in every aspect of your life. If you studied the verses above, you know that each one of us is able to shine when we allow the Spirit of Christ to love through us. This is even more important with someone who lives with you. How can you expect them to give their lives to a God that hasn’t changed you for the better? Let them observe the Holy Spirit make you gentle, patient, loving, kind, forgiving, selfless, servant hearted, self-controlled, etc. In essence, allow Christ in you to draw them to HIM by allowing your life to shine for Jesus.  Share why your faith is important and why it enriches your life. Every one of us are created beings. We were designed with a desire to seek to live for something bigger than ourselves. It is rare to find someone who takes comfort in being a random compilation of mutated cells that appeared on planet earth by accident with no intelligent design or forethought and no security of an afterlife. Simply survival of the fittest and when we die, we become worm food. It is depressing to think we are all alone on this journey. It is far more fulfilling to believe we are fearfully and wonderfully made. We have a God who knows we are sinners and accepts us as we are, in our mess. Instead of fumbling through our lives continually grasping in the dark trying to find the way, our everlasting ever present Counselor offers to be a light unto our path and a lamp unto our feet, guiding us to an abundant life here and a pain free perfect eternal life after death. Honestly, it is GOOD NEWS! Don’t preach at them. SHARE with them why this GOOD news has changed your life for the better. Testify of the value add your faith offers your personal state of mind. Side note: On this point, if you are reading this and do not know Jesus personally, we encourage you to find a person that you believe truly lives and breathes and has their being in Christ. Ask them to show you how to turn from your current ways and enter into an everlasting friendship with your Creator and Savior. We earnestly believe He will change your life, family, and marriage for the best! Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 125

Q: Life can be hard. Does it make any difference in handling trials together if you are both followers of Jesus? A: We believe it makes an incredible difference. We will share a specific example to illustrate why we believe knowing God equips us to walk through life’s trials more effectively and come out stronger together. We will tell the story of our son. You can download the book, Conquering the Giants, off our website (www.ashleythaba.com) if you want the full detailed story, but for the purpose of this book, we will summarize a few highlights on this story to answer this question. When he was born, he was a victim of medical negligence which resulted in him being severely brain damaged. Consequently, when he was 3 days old, we had to take an emergency air evacuation to South Africa to save his life. Upon arrival, he was so close to death that the doctors spent that night and the next day simply trying to get him back to life with aggressive interventions putting fluid and oxygen into his dying little body. By the time he was stable enough on day 5 to do MRI brain scans, the doctors explained the results of the scans showed that we went into labor with a healthy baby boy on Monday, and now on Friday, he had been bleeding internally for 5 days and the brain was irreversibly damaged. It wasn’t fair! The doctors made a mistake, and we had to pay. Hospital bills went through the roof. Physical strain of living in a hospital for 3 weeks in a foreign country so soon after the childbirth I (Ashley) had gone through which left me with numerous stitches and enormous pain. I need to rest to heal, but I was having to go up and down between our guest room and stand beside an I.C.U. bed not knowing if my child would survive. Emotional guilt was felt as we had been forced to leave our 19 month old baby girl with strangers at last minute since we didn’t have any family around to take her, and we had to get on a plane to come to South Africa. Words can’t describe the physical and emotional pain of watching helplessly while doctors say your son might not make it through the week, but even if he does, his brain is so damaged that he will never be able to function like a normal child. If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 126

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Spirituality Nurses counselled us that it is normal for couples to split up when they encounter such struggles. The work of raising a child with special needs puts enormous pressure onto the two parents. It takes more work; it takes more money; it takes more patience! It is just hard, and statistically speaking many couples struggle to handle the pressure. There is no reason why Percy and I shouldn’t have been another statistic. It was HARD! Percy and I, feeling overwhelmed at it all, knew we had to seek advice from God on how to get through this. Thankfully, we were on the same page because we both had decided long before this trial that we individually would surrender whatever our natural desires were to trust in God’s will and ways no matter what life threw our way. As we read the Bible and prayed for guidance, God’s word in 1 Thessalonians 5:18 told us to, “give thanks in all circumstances; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.” God told us to forgive our enemies (the doctors who put us in this mess certainly felt like enemies at the time!). God told us to focus on that which is praiseworthy and trust He could bring good out of any situation. We began to intentionally take our eyes off everything that was going wrong and say out loud to each other everything that we had to be grateful for. We had a healthy baby girl. God had provided strangers to take her (they later became great friends after keeping our daughter for 3 weeks!). We had each other. We had a relationship with the God of the Universe who was sovereign and powerfully able to perform miracles even in dire situations like ours. Caleb, our son, was alive. The doctors were surprised he even survived the first night due to how bad of shape he was in when we arrived in S.A. We didn’t FEEL like doing this. We FELT like wallowing in self-pity and being mad at each other, the doctors, and the world. We did this simply because we had both chosen to let Christ be in charge of our lives. As we began to take our eyes off our problems and put them onto Jesus and that which was praiseworthy, our hearts lifted, our hopes renewed, and our joy returned. As our moods lifted, we further searched the scriptures for guidance on how to press on. James 1:2-4 and Romans 5:3-4 urged us to consider it pure joy when we encountered trials, knowing these trials would develop our character and refine our faith. We began to look for the positive lessons we would learn and the ways we would grow as individuals and as a couple out of this. Romans 8:28 said that God can bring good out of all things. We anxiously, with hope, waited and watched to see what good God would bring out of such a tragedy. In summary, to answer the question, the trial that could have broken our marriage apart became a stepping stone to greater intimacy with each other and with our Heavenly Father. Again, for the full story of this tragedy which turned into a miracle, you can go to our website, www.ashleythaba.com to download the book with the whole story. Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 127

Q: Which is the best religion to follow for married couples? If you say Christianity, explain why. A: We will tell you our testimony and why we have been so blessed to have a relationship with Jesus, which has formed the foundation of our marriage. We can’t speak for another religion because that isn’t our personal experience. The Bible teaches a concept in Genesis 2:24 that when a husband and wife come together, they become one flesh. In a miraculous way that has brought us unspeakable joy, God has united us in such a way the two of us have become one. We literally can’t tell where one finishes and the other starts. Our money is completely blended. Raising our children is an equal partnership. We share friends, cell phones, property, and our lives in general. As we have lived together, walking through life side by side, we have become more and more glued together in such a way we can finish each other’s sentences and read each other’s minds. The two have become one in a joyful union, which we believe is greatly because of putting Jesus at the center of our lives and marriage. Following the Biblical guidelines combined with the direction of the Holy Spirit living within us has been the secret to our success. However, since the question is about religion in marriage, we would like to say, as we have already said, that although our experience is based in Christianity, we do believe that any time a couple has a similar worldview and religious focus, they will be closer than two people who are walking through life without a divine purpose and focus to connect and bond them. Q: Is it realistic to think in an era where affairs are the norm that two people can honestly be faithful to each other until death do them part? A: This is such a great question that we are so glad was asked. The marital institution is under fire. Affairs are the norm. In fact, when we tell people that we have never cheated on the other in our 19 years together, they smirk and nod in a way that seems to indicate they doubt we are telling the truth. Sadly, even in churches, sexual immorality prevails, and no one seems to address this subject head on for fear we will come across as judgmental. Let us be very clear. In NO WAY do we say anything we are saying to be judgmental, but rather we say these things because we firmly believe that God’s ways, including purity, will lead us to the MOST ABUNDANT life possible. We share this in an effort to tell you God’s ways are inconceivable and to testify that His ways will lead you to more joy and peace than you could ever imagine. John 3:17 says Jesus did not come to judge us but to save us. Romans 8:1 says there is NO condemnation in Christ Jesus. Colossians 1:13 says he has rescued us from the kingdom of darkness. 2 Corinthians 5:20 encourages us who have tasted his goodness to be ambassadors of reconciliation encouraging people to reconcile and surrender their lives to trust the wisdom of the God who says “I was there at the beginning and I will be there at the If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 128

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Spirituality end. I am the Alpha and Omega. I am wiser than you are, and I know how to best write the story of your life if you will let me be the Author and Perfecter of your faith.” With that said, we will answer that question personally and honestly. We are asked many times if it is realistic to be faithful because surely it gets boring being with the same person for your entire life. Understanding the chemical nature of love feelings, which we shared in the chapter of Unmet Expectations, we can imagine there is some excitement in moving from one partner to another. The unknown, the exciting feelings of getting to know someone new, the butterflies in your stomach, the flushed cheeks, the increased heart rate, and the sense of euphoria all cumulating together to present you with a temporary pleasurable experience when you begin to turn your eyes outside of your marriage to find love or sexual satisfaction. It is admittedly tempting, but here is the problem. It is temporary. There is no commitment. Any person who is cheating with you can easily cheat ON YOU, which means you have to wonder if they will still like you tomorrow. There are so many questions, such as if you get pregnant, will he stick around? Does the person like ME or just the sex he gets FROM me? That takes a hit now on your self-esteem becoming a mental distraction consuming your thoughts as the relationship is clouded with so many uncertainties. The feelings will fade. When they do, you have to clean up big messes because most likely to have that affair, you lied to someone. An average police officer who conducts lie detector tests can tell you the psychological and physical effects lying has on the body. It puts you in internal stress to have to deceive others constantly creating cover stories for where you are and what you are doing. When your spouse does find out (and they usually will eventually), relationships are damaged, reputations are ruined, innocent children are hurt, homes are wrecked, STDs are spread, etc. When the affair is now exposed, it doesn’t seem so appealing. Suddenly, when it all comes to light and you are faced with the reality of what you have been doing in the darkness, it is embarrassing. The drama that now ensues as you have to explain yourself and pick up the pieces of those you hurt for some moments of lustful satisfaction create feelings of shame and regret. You start to think it wasn’t worth it, but it is too late. The damage is done. Sometimes, your family, the people who genuinely loved you and would have stood faithfully by your side are gone. The lover has moved on to their next attraction. You are left alone and depressed. Making it We heard a quote years ago by a Hollywood actor (Paul Newman), which Practical stated, “Why go out for hamburgers when I have steak at home?” Sure, there is some satisfaction in a juicy hamburger, but not near as much as a home cooked steak. We find that the joys of being faithful to one person exceed the temporary happiness of moving around from bed to bed. For example, we know everything about each other. We know exactly how to please one another. We are completely secure and comfortable because we don’t just share a bed; we share a life. We accept each other, faults and all. We have committed to be with each other if we get wrinkles, if we lose our jobs, if we get sick, or if we get old. There is a remarkable excitement in knowing this person loves me – every part of me! He/she isn’t here to please himself/herself. He/she is here to please me! We feel safe being Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 129

completely vulnerable because we have 100% trust in one another. We can relax and give ourselves physically, because we are completely connected emotionally, intellectually, spiritually, financially, and in every other way. The physical act of sex is icing on the cake of a really great friendship and life partnership. It doesn’t define our relationship, but rather is a benefit of our relationship. I (Ashley) will speak as a woman and testify that I feel such peace that Percy has committed to me out of reverence to God and not just because of what I can offer (because that beauty and body might fade with the passage of time!). As he continues to seek to please our Lord, he remains faithful to me. That gives me a peace of mind that prohibits feelings of jealousy from creating walls preventing us from total emotional trust and intimacy. When we got married, he sang a gorgeous song to me vowing in front of hundreds of people to be true to me because he was going remain true to the GOD who gave me to him. (Go back and listen to the episode to hear my Prince Charming serenade me during the filming of this episode!). We encourage you to google the lyrics of that song titled “I will be here” by Stephen Curtis Chapman. The words have such depth, wisdom and promise of what a godly marriage of faithfulness can look like. Challenge: Listen to that song with your spouse. We hope and pray you will begin to see the appeal of choosing to remain faithful to one person ‘til death do you part. Talk, pray and commit to each other to be faithful. If you have made mistakes, work towards forgiveness, reconciliation and a fresh start. Below are questions for YOU to do either alone or with your spouse to help you deal more deeply with this issue of Spirituality. Q: Do you feel being \"spiritual\" is important in a marriage? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Do you feel one of you is more spiritual than the other? Why do you think that is? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 130

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Spirituality __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: We gave some reasons why we feel a relationship with God improves our marriage. Did you agree or disagree with what we had to say on this issue? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: A question was asked if we thought remaining faithful was realistic in an era when affairs are rampant. We gave some reasons why we think it is not only possible, but faithfulness actually enhances our sex life. What did you think about what we had to say about this topic? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Are you willing to do our faithfulness challenge we wrote above to listen to the song “I will be here” by Stephen Curtis Chapman and discuss whether you want that kind of love in your marriage? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 131

Q: Percy stated he is a better husband because of his relationship to God, because he is able to love Ashley better by getting filled up with love from God. What did you think of that? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Do you ever feel like you just have nothing left to give in your marriage and need a source to tap into to \"refill\" the love tank? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Do the two of you agree on how you should spend money on religious matters? Tithing, Offerings, gifts to needy, etc. Is this an area you need to work on? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Do they two of you agree on the how you want to raise your kids in regards to religion? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 132

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Spirituality Q: Are you teaching the same thing to your children? Are you leading your children by example or just by what you say, when they can see you don't actually believe it because you don't follow it yourself? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Do you two agree on the amount of time that should be spent on religious issues? (How often you should go to church, how often you should do family devotionals, how often you should go, as a family, to participate in ministry events to community, etc.) Is this an area you could improve on to enjoy more intimacy in your marriage? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: What did you think of Percy's comment \"happy wife, happy life.\" Do you feel you would be willing to do something you are uncomfortable with, like singing, in order to please your spouse? Is your love selfless and characterized by serving the other person in order to make them happy? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: When people talk about sexual immorality, do you feel they are being judgmental and should mind their own business? Or do you feel the church should speak more openly about these subjects, since they clearly affect almost everyone at some point or another? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 133

__________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: We talked about having a deep and personal relationship with God. Do you feel that characterizes your life? IF not, is that something you would want? Why or why not? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: If you would want a deeper relationship with the God of the Universe who holds the keys to your heart and your eternal destiny, what is stopping you from giving your all to Him? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: What did you take away from this episode that you feel would make your marriage deeper and more fulfilling? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 134

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Finances Finances Did you know that financial issues are the NUMBER one cause for divorce!? Before we got into marriage counselling, we actually thought it would be infidelity but turns out people can more easily get over their spouse cheating on them than the strain of financial difficulties! That makes the topic of finances a very important one! We want to talk about issues such as who is the spender. Who is the saver? Joint bank accounts or separate? Who manages the money? Should you check with each other before spending? Does the other person deserve to know how you spend your money? Is compromise necessary? What is the role of each other’s family’s and other people who are constantly wanting your money? As you can see, there is a lot to talk about when it comes to finances. Q: Who should be in charge of finances? The husband or the wife? A: The first fundamental principle when it comes to figuring out how to deal with finances in the home is honesty. Usually, if you are both honest, you will realize that one person is better when it comes to money. Sometimes that is the wife. Sometimes that is the husband. Remember you are a team, so it really shouldn’t matter who plays which role as long as the team is winning. Don’t get so caught up in gender when it comes to delegating household responsibilities. You are stronger when you begin to acknowledge and utilize the gifts of each other! For Ashley and me (Percy), we are both pretty good with spending habits. It is one of the things that attracted us to each other. We both felt we had trustworthy financial practices, which gave us each a peace of mind when joining our finances together when we got married. However, Ashley is stronger in this area of saving and budgeting. I realized early on that we would be better off on “Team Thaba” if I let her utilize her strengths and run with this area of our partnership. Even if the two of you agree that one person will be taking the lead in making the budget that determines your household financial disbursements, both of you need to still feel like you have a say in these expenditures. We have counselled many couples who have made similar decisions, recognizing one is stronger in the saving and budgeting department. The problem comes in now when that person who is “in charge” now feels they must baby the other person – dishing out money as if it is their child and not their spouse. The other spouse begins to resent feeling like it is not their money, but “her/his” money that he/she has to ask permission to use. The one with the money feels like she/he holds the power. It can quickly lead to massive communication and emotional breakdowns which can actually kill a marriage. Think of it like a business committee. One person might be in charge of gathering facts, financial figures and making recommendations, but ultimately no money is spent until the committee votes to approve the findings and recommendations. It is Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 135

important it always feels like “our” money, never “his/her” money that I have to beg to have to access. Q: What if I don’t trust my spouse’s spending habits? How can I be open about our money? A: We understand that it is very hard to be open when there is no trust. However, we are convinced that with good communication any issue can be solved. We also are convinced that if you do NOT solve issues that create a lack of trust between the two of you, you will never experience the wonderful emotional intimacy we believe God intends for the two of you in marriage. Therefore, let’s get practical and give you a few ways to deal with this issue. 1) Tell your spouse you would like to discuss the issues of finances. Set a date and time so that no one is caught off guard and you both have time to prepare mentally for the meeting. Assure the other person that they are welcome to bring any suggestions they have. Decide that the meeting will be a safe place for each person to honestly share how they feel the family finances are going and which areas they both want improve. Remember to use your “I feel” other than “YOU”. You could say something like this, “I would like for us to make a budget together and take a challenge to try it for 2 months. (Always start with small measurable goals!) I would like to see if we could possibly save a certain percentage of our money if we were intentional about how we used it. Could we try this for 2 months? Put all our money together in one pot and decide jointly how to spend it? This could allow us to save some money, and it would also help us learn to start talking about our finances with one another.” We believe with monetary issues, you need to start with small goals to build confidence. It is very difficult to go to a person and suggest they change their entire way of life. Doing a two month challenge is short enough that it is not too daunting, but long enough to establish some good habits. The idea is that once you can do this for 2 months, you reevaluate at the end of the set time and analyze what worked, what didn’t work, and what you will do to continue. By the way, if you do the 2 month challenge, we recommend you keep a receipt of EVERY SINGLE BIT spent so that when you “analyze the data” at the end of 2 months, you can get a realistic picture of where your money is going in order to plan better for the future. 2) Assuming you have done the two months save challenge and it did not work, there might actually be some root problems that need to be dealt with. These are harder than spending habits because these are psychological in nature. If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 136

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Finances For example, one of the spouses might have been impoverished as a child. Now that money is available, the person finds they can’t help buy things they want because either;  They made a promise to themselves when they didn’t have that if they ever did, they would never deny themselves again. They feel like they have worked hard and don’t see any reason they should deny themselves whatever they want now.  They still fear that the money might be gone tomorrow, so better spend it in case that happens. I (Ashley) remember listening to Hollywood actor, Will Smith, be interviewed years ago on Oprah. He was saying even when he had millions in the bank and was an international superstar, it still didn’t seem real. He felt like it would disappear, and he would go back to being a poor guy in the ghetto. He testified that he would stay up nights worrying about how to keep the money and how to work himself even harder to make more so that he could create security. The number in his bank account would have any of us thinking we would never work another day in our life, but to him, his mindset still saw himself as a poor guy.  Another issue could be insecurity. Perhaps the person legitimately feels that they must keep up a certain appearance to feel liked and accepted by others. To ask them to not spend on the latest styles, take their kids to the best schools, and visit the popular restaurants is asking them to commit social suicide in their minds. The person feels like if they have a nice car, a nice house, and nice clothes they feel good about themselves. Their identity has become synonymous with material gain.  Another dimension to this is when people rise to the top by portraying a certain image of wealth and have achieved power by paying people off. Their fear if they quit spending money on their appearance and on other powerful people, then their entire career could come crashing down. Deep down they know they didn’t get there by merit, so they feel entrapped to keep spending to keep from falling. We share these examples because many times when we counsel couples, we realize that they are fighting over the “fruit” (excessive unnecessary spending), but the root is much deeper. They would be better advised to really try and understand WHY their spouse is spending and deal with it at an emotional level, which would help them come up with a realistic practical plan which works for both of them. We have more advice on this subject of how couples can be smarter with their financial decisions and how they can fight the psychological battles, but we don’t feel this is the platform to go into the finer details. For this book, the goal is to help you at a general level to know that the area of finances needs to be dealt with openly and honestly within your marriage at a holistic level. Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 137

Q: What if your husband wants to make a particular investment, such as a car or property, and you, the wife, don’t agree with that investment. How do you deal with that? A: I (Percy) am going to answer this one because in our marriage, it is almost always me that is wanting to spend. First of all, understand that when you bring the idea, you have had time to dream, plan, and get excited. Your spouse is hearing it for the first time, so I would advise you to bring the idea with facts and figures if you want her buy in. She is your marriage partner, so if you want her buy in and blessing, understand it is normal for you to have to convince her with something other than your excitement. Men, let me add here – when Ashley first told me I needed to convince her, I felt disrespected. Why didn’t she trust me? Now, I have realized that she is a great asset that God has given me to put on the brakes and be realistic. Her financial wisdom has saved us from wasting thousands upon thousands over the years! If I can’t convince my spouse, then that might be an indication I won’t be able to convince potential investors or clients either. Instead of being offended by her reluctance to jump on board, thank her for holding you accountable and patiently explain to her why you feel this will work with some actual numbers and projections. Always remember you are a team. If this business idea fails, she will suffer with you. If you are sure this is a good idea, why are you afraid to substantiate it with a solid presentation of pros and cons even if it takes a long time to do so? To make this practical, we want to share some actual stories from our own financial history. 1) One time I (Percy) found out about a business opportunity. A trusted friend introduced it to us, and it sounded amazing. In fact, to me (Ashley), it sounded TOO good to be true. My daddy always drilled it into us that we should be skeptical of anything that was too good to be true because money doesn’t just land in your lap easily. Percy kept pushing me, talking about it incessantly. Finally, exasperated, I gave in. “Just do what you want if it will make you stop talking about it! I personally don’t think it is a smart move, but I can’t stand talking about it all the time!” He proceeded to invest a significant amount of money. It wasn’t too long before we realized it was a scam. I am embarrassed to tell you how much money we lost. I can tell you that it caused us to fight like never before! I was irate! Of course, I said “I told you so!” Percy got defensive. We decided this together. I maintained, “No, you pressured me! I was never comfortable with this!” I will spare you the drama, but there was fireworks for weeks as I steamed thinking of all the things we could have done with that hard earned money! Eventually, we came to the realization that no amount of money was worth losing the peace in our marriage. We decided to drop the matter, forgive one another and move forward. We had made a mistake and now we needed to If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 138

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Finances analyze the lessons learned so that it wouldn’t happen again. Here were our lessons learned: a) When the other person has an idea, they bring it up. They present the facts, explaining the pros and cons and presenting facts and figures. After the initial presentation, they leave it. b) We both agree to pray about it and really seek God’s guidance. c) If possible to research with others who have gone before us in that particular investment, we will seek wise counsel. d) Ultimately, if one of us is not convinced, we leave it. We will not manipulate or guilt trip the other person. We serve a God who has been faithful to give us unity in every GOOD financial decision we have made. If we both aren’t on board, it could be either not a good decision or not the right time. Therefore, patience is key if the timing isn’t right yet. e) If the other agrees, we actually sign a contract. We kid you not! We actually state in writing that we are in full support of the idea. We have a business meeting where one of us even takes minutes of the meetings for future records! That is how serious we are. We do this so there will never be another “I TOLD YOU SO” fight again. Once we agree, we do so willingly and enter wholeheartedly into the new business venture. IF it fails, we fail together. If it succeeds, we succeed together. From the day we sign that contract, we are on the team TOGETHER with equal and full buy in. 2) I want to give one more example to really provide practical advice to answer your question. Another time Percy came to me with a desire to buy a farm. I LOVE gardening... LOVE it! I grow so much food in our little yard that 365 days a year, our family of 5 eats abundantly out of our backyard. I have even perfected the art of various techniques to make sure that without a gardener or me spending much time, the garden grows with minimal intervention. That is another book where I could teach those acquired gardening lessons. The point is Percy thought I would be thrilled at the idea of buying a farm to take my tried and true garden skills to a large scale farm. I was not! We are so busy as it is, and a commercial farm would take more time we didn’t have. Additionally, growing in my backyard was one thing, growing in a farm was a whole other matter. Boreholes need to be dug. Farm labor needs to be managed. Sandy Botswana soil needs loads of work to make it productive. We don’t get a lot of rain here and have days so hot a tree/vegetable can literally burn up without adequate water, making farming here unpredictable and labor intensive. To sum it up, I felt the money that would need to be paid did not match the potential investment payoff. We followed our financial rules. Percy Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 139

brought it to me. I prayed about it. I didn’t feel any sense of excitement. I went back to him and said no. Following our rules, he agreed and dropped it. Over a span of a year, friends would talk about owning a farm, and I would observe how excited Percy would get dreaming of his own. In a very respectful way, he would drop comments about how he really wished one day we could own a farm. Finally, one day, after praying about it more to see if I had come to a rushed decision, I felt God telling me to submit to my husband and support him. I went to him and told him that although I was still not excited about the idea, I would support him. From that day on, I have stood by his side and worked long hours trying to make that farm succeed. We have encounters various hardships (like water so bad that it kills most plants and animals!), that could have led me to say, “I told you this was a bad idea.”, but honestly that really has not crossed my mind. I am on Team Thaba, so we are in this farm venture together. No matter what comes our way, we will face it together as OUR problem now. Q: How do we deal with black tax? A: “Black tax” is a common problem for many African families. It is the concept that when a family member makes money, it is their responsibility to support the extended family members who are less fortunate, hence, making it difficult for them to build generational wealth. Issues like “black tax” are tricky. There ISN’T an easy one size fits all solution since every situation is different depending on the family member needing the help. We will share some principles and hope they will guide you to have some meaningful discussions with your spouse to decide what works for YOUR family. 1) Using the Biblical guideline that a man shall leave his family and cleave to his wife, we decided that for us our first priority is to take care of our immediate family. We will not introduce financial problems in our marriage that are caused by third parties. We realize that other people may not like that, but we work hard for our money. Generally, when we counsel couples, the relatives who want to “tap” in when the black tax becomes a problem are relatives who are not working. Many times these are even able bodied people who have simply learned that they can be lazy or spend above their means and turn to a relative to help them out. We have just made a decision that for us, we won’t support this type of behavior unless we feel God leading us to do that. We will not feel bullied into spending money we have not budgeted on people who didn’t earn that money. If people get mad, so be it. We choose peace in our own home over trying to please everyone else while we suffer. If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 140

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Finances 2) As stated above, we will never spend any money without first getting the go ahead from the other. Get your family used to these words, “I need to speak to my spouse first before I commit OUR money.” 3) Whatever we decide, when we relay that message, we always use “we”. “We would be happy to help.” Or, “We discussed it, and unfortunately, we won’t be able to help at this time.” CAUTION: We stress “we” because many couples will say something like this, “Augh, this spouse of mine! I wanted to give, but she doesn’t want us to.” Or, “Okay, my spouse doesn’t want me to do this, so keep this hush hush… here’s some money.” This creates a lot of strain on the in-law relationships where they do not accept your spouse because you are feeding them negative information about your spouse to save your reputation. You are a unit now. Act like it. Whatever decision you take, when you relay that, be united! Making it I (Percy) used to just secretly give to family members without asking Practical Ashley first. She would find out and feel left out and frustrated. It was a dangerous slope. We then decided early on that all decisions would be made together. I also found that if I went to her and explained the problem and the reason why that particular relative needed help, many times she would readily agree to help. I realized it wasn’t that she wasn’t willing to help, rather she resented being TOLD I had spent OUR money, and she had no say in it. Once she had ownership of the decision, most of the time, she happily submitted and trusted my judgement if I felt like we should help someone out. It became a joy for us both to give together, instead of my previous habit of keeping secrets from my wife because I believed the worst in her without even giving her an opportunity to show love to my family through financial contributions. Q: If you have to discuss every little expenditure, how do you deal with the element of surprise if you would like to buy a gift for your spouse? A: We strongly advise couples to create a budget. In this budget, you can both set aside a certain amount that is meant for your personal use. The amount will be determined after you both decide how to divide up the money you make to cover the essential monthly bills. Always cover essentials before spending on “fun” stuff. If you want to save your spending money for a few months to buy one big gift, so be it. That will make it all the more special if your spouse knows you went without buying things you wanted to please him/her. Also, setting aside a certain amount is just practical so that you don’t feel the need to call every time you want to make an impulse buy of a take-away lunch, an ice cream, or an expensive clothing item. Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 141

Q: How do you balance your support between the two families? Doesn’t one spouse get resentful if their family doesn’t receive as much? A: This goes back to communication and empathy. If the two of you genuinely love each other and love your families, you will be able to see which family has the legitimate needs. This shouldn’t be a point of contention, but rather a joy that you two can help out. The hope is if the two of you are being objective and mature, the person whose family has more will simply feel blessed to not need to support them and happy that leaves more in the “pot” to help others. For example, in Ashley’s family and really what is common in the American culture from what I (Percy) have seen is that the parents are the ones helping out their children. It isn’t common, from what I have observed, for the parents to expect their children to help out financially. Therefore, Ashley nor her parents have ever in our 19 years together, ever expected us to give any money towards helping them out. This simply makes Ashley feel grateful that since we don’t have to support her family, if need be, there is money we have that we can use to help out mine whenever the need arises. Again, this shouldn’t be a big deal when compassion and love are present in a marriage. Q: At what point does a couple begin talking about issues of finances? A: It is so important to discuss these matters in detail BEFORE you get married! If you are already married, then plan a meeting this WEEK to discuss these issues. Many couples assume these issues will sort themselves out when they get married. They see warning signs in the other person’s spending habits, but they are afraid to anger the other person by bringing it up thinking it isn’t my place yet since we aren’t married. Alternatively, they honestly assume, that when they get married, they will work these issues out. If you cannot work out your financial issues before marriage, there is a very good chance it will actually get worse after marriage. Since financial tension is one of the leading factors in choosing to divorce, we would strongly urge you to rethink your marriage vows! You are talking about the rest of your life. Why spend it fighting about money every day? Let us just take this opportunity to stress how extremely important pre-marital counseling is. It isn’t just finances. Each episode has raised a different issue. Couples who want to enjoy a happy life together must learn to communicate effectively before they get married. A good counselor might even have to tell you that you two may not be the best fit. If that counselor saves you from making a huge mistake, it was worth the money! Alternatively, if you two are compatible but just need some fine tuning to learn how to work out all these issues, then again the best time to do that is while you are still in the “love” stage where you want to work out all your problems If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 142

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Finances before you are married, comfortable and so busy that you don’t have time to get counseling. Q: Why do you think couples fight over money? A: There are several reasons, but if we had to sum up the root of most of the money problems we see in couples, it is a lack of contentment. If I (Ashley) were to give you one big financial secret it is learning to be content with whatever you have. There is nothing worse that telling a man that he isn’t making enough to make you happy. Or worse, if you begin to compare him to another man who is providing better for his family than your husband. In my humble opinion, our job as wives is to stand by our husband’s side and make the most out of whatever he brings home. Be grateful and content. Making it Let me (Percy) add on to this point. One of the best gifts Ashley has Practical given me is that she has NEVER complained about money. Never! There have been periods when we went over a year without making money. There was a year when we were in America waiting for me to get a green card, when she was the sole bread winner. She never complained. She just looked at what we had and figured out ways to stretch the money. She looked at her skills, and figured out where she could earn money to help us out if need be. She has made it so clear to me that we are not in this marriage partnership to make money, but to share our lives together. Her actions have made me so secure in the fact that she loves ME, not the money I make. That frees me, as a man, to know that whether I make a lot or a little, my wife will faithfully remain by my side. I want to make this practical so that maybe this will encourage some wives, because I can promise you that your husband will appreciate these qualities in you. When we first moved back to Botswana, I left a job in America where I was making over 8 times what I was making here. Many wives would have complained that we should just go back to America, but because she has always been about living for a greater purpose, she didn’t blink an eye. She adjusted our life accordingly to make sure we would be able to live on the new income. She learned to garden. When I say she learned to garden, I mean there is not a day of the year that we don’t eat out of our yard: oranges, guavas, passion fruits, mangoes, bananas, grapes, lemons, lettuce, tomatoes, peppers, all kinds of herbs, strawberries, beans, greens, carrots, potatoes, peas, okra, beetroots, ginger, etc. She even decided it wasn’t practical to have a small swimming pool so we turned our pool into a natural pond to grow tilapia fish we could eat out of our backyard! She devised plans to recycle all water in our home to go towards our garden to cut down on our water bill and increase productivity in our garden. When it came time to pay school fees and she realized it would be a financial strain, she learned to homeschool and sacrificed to spend her days with our children giving them an education that was far superior to anything they would have gotten in any other school. She doesn’t buy clothes for herself; I even cut her hair! Now, I realize that my wife is probably extreme! Ha! Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 143

But here is the lesson I want you to hear wives. I am so proud of her, and I am so in love with her because her actions show me that she loves me. She is content with whatever I bring home. She puts no pressure on me to give her a life that makes her fit in with others. Her identity is secure and is not wrapped up in material possessions. She doesn’t care what anyone else thinks as long as she is doing her part to make sure our family lives within our means. We counsel so many couples where the woman complains that her husband isn’t home because he works late and doesn’t seem to care about the family. When we ask the man, he says, “I do that because you (the wife) is always saying that the kids need to go to nicer schools, wear nicer clothes or you need a new car or a new dress/shoes, or we need to take more family vacations. I am just trying to please you and provide for you.” Her lack of contentment drove him to work harder longer hours and now she isn’t happy. This is why we can’t stress enough the power of learning to be CONTENT WITH WHAT YOU HAVE. Q: How much importance should we place on money in the home? A: It is where your priorities lie. If your priority is to make money and lots of it, then money plays a HUGE role in how you think and what you talk about. If your priorities are in loving one another and being content with what you have, then money is icing on the cake. By the way, don’t hear us saying you don’t need money. Our goal is always to be real. Obviously, it isn’t realistic that anyone can survive if they don’t have money, but how much money you “need” depends on you. One couple can be very happy staying home on weekends eating popcorn and watching a movie or playing games as a family while another couple feels they need to go out to dinner and to the cinema. One family decides they need meat every meal; another is content with beans. One family makes it a must to spend Christmas at an exotic vacation destination; another is satisfied to simply be at the home village surrounded by loved ones. NONE OF THESE SCENARIOS are wrong, but our point is you CHOOSE what you are content with. The importance of money in your relationship is dependent on how much you connect your joy and peace with having it. Q: Should you use joint or separate banking accounts? A: This is a personal decision, so you will need to choose what is best for your family. However, when we counsel couples, we can always tell when there will be financial fights because they slip and say “my money.” It is ESSENTIAL that you understand that once the two become one, it is OUR money! The problem with “my money” mentality is the one who has more has the power and can begin to dominate the other. Things like this can be said, “I made the money so you won’t tell me how I will spend my money!” Or, “You need me to loan you money again? This is getting old!” Or, If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 144

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Finances “No, I am not going to give you money. If you want that, then go get a job to pay for it yourself.” Or, “This isn’t fair. Why do I have to pay for the groceries, school fees, and kids’ clothes? You are only paying for the rent and utilities! That means you have more money for fun than I have!” Basically, these fights occur because in your mind, it is still “your money” and “his/her money”. Resentment builds up and emotional intimacy is destroyed. Making it Therefore, for us, we decided when we got married to have a joint Practical account. By throwing it all together into one account, we literally have NO idea whose money is whose. It has helped us to honestly see it as “our” money. Additionally, there have been times in our marriage when I (Ashley) have made more money. There have been times when Percy has made more money. There have been long periods of time when I (Ashley) have stayed at home with our children and have brought in NO money. Through it all, regardless of who was bringing what to the table, it has always been OUR money. By sharing one account, it also has helped us be accountable to discussing our finances regularly and openly because the other person will know if money is spent since we receive notifications every time money is spent out of our account. We welcome that accountability because it is an area where we must keep communicating, which builds into our desired “team” mentality. Below are questions for YOU to do either alone or with your spouse to help you deal more deeply with this issue of Finances. Q: We shared some pretty radical financial beliefs. Which one did you think stood out the most to you? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Do you believe that couples should tell each other about their expenditures? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 145

__________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Do you believe you could start saying no to a relative that needed help if your spouse didn’t agree with giving at that time? Why or why not? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: We said that we always say, “Let me check with my spouse” before making a financial decision. Do you currently run every financial decision by your spouse? Why or why not? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Do you believe most couples discuss finances before they get married? What advice would you give to a couple preparing for marriage to make sure they discuss? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 146

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Finances Q: Wives, what did you think of the advice of learning to be content, even if it means some sacrifices on the luxuries you get to enjoy? Could you do that? What are you willing to cut in order to help build the family’s finances instead of depleting them? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Who is the saver/spender in your relationship? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Could you relate in any way with the advice that sometimes we spend money because of psychological issues which are not dealt with? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: As a couple do you currently have “financial business meetings” to formally discuss how you will spend your money together? Would you want to do this? Why or why not? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 147

Q: Finances are the number one cause of divorce, which makes this episode very important. How do you feel you two are doing with communicating about finances? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Do you have joint or separate bank accounts? Based on our advice, do you feel you would like to consolidate or do anything differently to feel it is not \"his/her\" money but rather \"our\" money? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Someone asked what to do when one spouse want to invest into something the other doesn't agree on. We shared some specific stories. Do you feel you can use any of those tips to help you deal with financial investments together as a team? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 148

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Finances Q: We talked a lot about the influence and responsibilities of spending money on relatives. Do you ever have disagreements on this issue? Did you agree with our advice? Why or why not? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: What were some lessons you learned in this episode which will help improve the financial aspect of your relationship? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 149