Talking with the Thabas Season 1 Workbook

In-Laws When in-laws are coming to visit, you try to please them. You try and present an orderly home, prepare the best food, and show that you are taking care of their child. Still, there are in-laws that seem to never be pleased or impressed even with the best efforts. It is no secret that in-laws can cause serious problems with couples. Some spouses are still too attached and depend more on their parents than their partner. Sometimes the in-laws make demands on their child that cause financial strain on the couple. Sometimes an in law never accepts the spouse and makes sure that they don’t feel included causing their child to have to choose their allegiance between their parents and their partner. The question is how involved should in laws be? How much time should be spent with them? How much authority do they have in the marriage? What is their role? There are a lot of issues to discuss when blending two families into one. Therefore, for this episode, we invited Percy’s parents, my (Ashley) in-laws, to join us. This was done in an effort to be as transparent and genuine as possible. That is the point of this TV show and the point of this book. We want to give you hope and advice that works, because we have tried it and we are personally doing it ourselves. Q: You two are a unique couple, coming from two different continents. Your story must be interesting. How did you meet and decide to marry? A: This story could be a book on its own, so we will just focus on the highlights and the parts of this story that involve in-laws. Making it I (Ashley) moved to Francistown Botswana in August 2000. I was Practical working with the Baptist church as a missionary. My job was to work with the youth of Botswana, instilling character values and teaching biblical principles. To that end, I volunteered in all of the government junior and senior secondary schools in the city every single week day. I would usually go to 2 different schools a day teaching. To the kids that were interested in learning more about God and learning how to read the Bible and apply it to their lives, I then hosted a weekly youth group meeting on Saturday afternoon at the church as well as a “girl’s night” that met at my house on Friday night, where we simply shared about real questions. They asked me questions they didn’t feel comfortable asking their parents – like about boys and their hormones, which were raging as teenagers. Thankfully, I was able to help guide many of these girls to make smarter decisions to protect their purity. One of the girls that used to come to these meetings and attend the church youth group was Percy’s sister. Percy had become a Christian and began attending the church years earlier. His parents were not followers of Jesus nor attending church at If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 150

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: In-Laws the time, but before Percy left for university, he had invited his sister and brother to attend. Even in his absence, they both continued to go to church. They also lived close by, so many times on my way to various church meetings, I would volunteer to pick them up to help them save their public transport costs. Their mother (Percy’s mother) was grateful for the kindness I showed her children. Finding out I lived alone, she told me if I ever wanted a prepared meal, I could tell their house helper when I collected the kids that when we returned from church, I would like her to dish a plate of food for me. As a single lady living alone, meals were lonely. Cooking an entire meal and sitting down in silence by myself to eat felt depressing! Therefore, many nights I took her up on this offer. I would come in, get my plate of food and sit and chat or watch TV with them. I became like an adopted member of the family and was very comfortable going in and out of their house as if it were my own home. There were even times I would come home to my house and find out thieves had been there. Percy’s father was a police officer, so I would run to their house. Percy’s mom would offer the bedroom of her son, Percy, who was away at university to sleep in for the night until I felt safe to return to my home! Imagine! Who knew I was sleeping in the bed of my future husband and had never even met him! On May 12, 2001, I was out exercising. God usually speaks to me by giving me an idea that I can’t get out of my mind. When I think of the idea, God fills me with this sense of peace that lets me know this is the next step I should take. At that point, I had been listening to God’s voice through these directing thoughts as well as through obedience to the Bible for 14 years, because I had become a Christian and chosen to follow Jesus at age 9. I knew His voice. That day, what I heard scared me! Out of nowhere, I distinctly had this thought, “You will marry Percy Thaba.” Remember I did not know him, had never met him. Additionally, where I come from in America, at that time, was still very racially separated. Blacks live on another side of town than whites. I had never even observed an interracial couple growing up in South Georgia. Add that to the fact that I worked with youth all the time and hadn’t really met anyone that was a true friend who understood me in the months I had been in Botswana. I honestly just saw myself as a missionary there to serve, but I wasn’t going to MARRY an African man! Surely God had dialed the wrong number!!!! Or maybe was this a voice from Satan!? The Bible says that we should flee temptation. Maybe this was a thought put in my mind to distract me and get my attention off the good I was doing helping youth walk in purity and integrity. Surely, that was it! “Satan, get behind me! I choose to think pure thoughts! I don’t need a boy right now! I am perfectly content on my own.” The thought persisted! Despite my attempts to think of Bible verses or worship songs to push out the invading voice, the thought continued to pop up on the screen of my mind, “You will marry Percy Thaba.” Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 151

As I ran, God and I talked. Giving into the fact that this might be a message from above, I asked several questions of how this would work out. The more I processed my fears, I realized that one of my greatest apprehensions was wondering what others would say if I married a black African man. The other I realized was one of superiority. If I am to be honest, I had no problem being the one who was coming to help, but I didn’t really think an African man was going to meet my high standard I had set for myself in a spouse. The voice continued, “This is the best I have.” Doubtful, but willing to trust in God’s best, I asked him to prove it. It was Saturday. Youth group started in a couple of hours. A shower was needed before I went to church, so I began jogging back home meditating on these revelations. At church, a taxi pulled up. A young man got out of the taxi and youth started crowding around him. “Percy! My man! You are home from university for the long winter break!” Grabbing one of the youth and pulling them aside, I enquired, “Is that Percy Thaba?” The youth joyfully replied, “Oh yeah! He is the best! He used to run this youth group before he went to university!” My heart skipped a beat! My cheeks felt flushed! Could this be a coincidence? What are the odds that I would have that conversation with God in the morning and now that afternoon I would meet him? He walked over confidently to me, “You must be Ashley. My family has told me all the great work you have been doing here at the church and with the youth in schools. Thank you. We are happy to have you here with us.” Stammering out some quick response, I realized I was in such a state of confusion, I needed to gather my thoughts. I fled to the smelly outhouse of the church, which I normally avoided like the plague! Who wants to hang out in a disgusting small concrete structure meant to cover a hole in the ground full of people’s waste? I knew I would not be disturbed there! After collecting myself and reminding myself I had to pull it together to teach the youth group, I emerged, coaching myself not to stare at him and just do the job I came to do. Throughout my teachings and interactions, I kept stealing glances to look his way. He seemed nice. Everyone seemed to love him. He was clearly highly respected by all. But, my husband!?!? Surely not! After youth, he approached me and told me that my boss had requested he help me out with mentoring the guys over the 4 months he would be home from university. Learning from his siblings that I usually took them home, he invited me to come in that night when I dropped them so he could learn more about how he could be of service to me and the youth at church. This story is getting long, so let me cut it here to say that night when I got to know Percy, hear his desire to serve others, witnessed the way even his peers treated him with in such high esteem, observed him share his passion to follow Jesus, watched the way he lovingly interacted with his family, saw the way he sat patiently and intently listened to everything I said, I realized “this man is too good for me! A holy guy like this would never look my way! He is near perfect!” If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 152

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: In-Laws We will save that for another book for how we actually got together and fast forward a year. We were now sure that we were going to get married. In fact, God had miraculously opened up a door and Percy would be returning back “West” with me. I was headed back to America, and he had been given a full scholarship to attend Carleton University in Ottawa, Canada for 4 years to get a degree in Computer Engineering. Confident that we would wed during the 4 years he was abroad in university, Percy decided to break the cultural norm and tell his parents of our relationship. In all honesty, we both thought they knew we had feelings for one another. For the past year we had been in “courtship”, every time he was home from university, we were inseparable. (I use courtship because it wasn’t really dating since we had never gone on a date.) Turns out they just thought I was an excellent missionary, and he was just a very involved church attendee. They didn’t take the news well! Fears of whether I would take their son back to America filled them. What if he led his siblings to do the same? How could I, a white American, ever truly fit into their culture? So many concerns filled their minds. Percy’s dad was mad. Percy’s mom was so scared what the future held for her son that she didn’t eat for days. The morning after breaking the news, I left my home and saw Percy’s dad standing at the public transport stop. Pulling over to the side of the road, I rolled down the window and asked if he needed a lift to town. He got in. Awkward silence filled the car. Should I drive? Should I stay parked and address the clear tension in the air? As I pondered my next move, he broke the ice, “Ashley, we have heard the news. Please know we love you as a daughter, but we do not want you as a daughter in law! It might have worked for the first President, Khama, and his white wife. It will NOT work for the Thabas.” Later, he would say that was his way of threatening me so that I would give up on his son. Little did he know that God had actually arranged this marriage, and I wasn’t going to give up very easily on the best God could offer me! To keep the story short, I will skip the miraculous way God ordained my steps to end up with a job starting a church with university students in Ottawa, Canada! Yeah! God is so cool!! When he calls us to do something, He is pretty spectacular how He is capable of making a way to bring it to completion! I moved to Ottawa to start my new job and reunite with Percy on the “other side of the ocean”. Due to the fact that sexual purity meant a lot to us, I rented my own apartment despite the fact that it would have been cheaper and easier to just move in with him. He proposed to me on April 26, 2003 – my birthday. He even called his father and my father to ask for my hand in marriage. They agreed. What we didn’t know is that they assumed the wedding would happen when he finished university and had secretly hoped the relationship would have fizzled off as the years passed. The wedding was planned for December 27, 2003. 1000 fancy wedding invitations were printed. A huge banquet hall was rented. Deposits on flowers were paid. A dress was picked out. My mother and I were busy planning the wedding of my dreams – Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 153

the one I had been dreaming of since I was a little girl. They loved Percy, fully agreeing with me that he was a gift from God and a husband that would make me happy for the rest of my life. The color of his skin never bothered them a bit, because they saw that the color of his heart was pure gold! They couldn’t have been more proud to call him their son-in-law! By August, wedding plans were in full force. My parents were concerned that though everything else seemed to be settled, there was no word from his parents about the role they would play in this wedding. Percy called home. Since he had asked their permission before asking me back in April, he had assumed that as he had been talking about the wedding, they would be attending. He simply thought at this point it would just be concluding logistics and buying plane tickets. To his shock, when he directly asked his father, his father angrily responded, “If you marry her, then you should consider yourself disowned! We do not approve nor will we bless this union! Don’t bother coming home if you make this choice!” I could hear the shouting through the phone receiver on the other side of the room. Things didn’t look promising. Hours and hours of prayer were spent trying to understand what our next steps would be. We knew God had ordained this marriage. We knew their reasons were mainly fear and racially based. Were “bad” reasons enough to cancel a “good” thing? Different counsel flowed into our ears. Some said we needed to do what God called us to do and ignore Percy’s parents. Others advised that it didn’t matter what the reasons were, the Bible was clear, “Honor your father and mother!” After much prayer, we both knew what we had to do. Cancel the wedding. Honor his parents. Since it was August, school was beginning. A trip overseas to Botswana needed at least 2 weeks to merit the expensive cost of the flight and the fact it would be his first time home in over a year. The next time he would have time off school was Christmas after the first semester. December 27, we could no longer be walking down the aisle. He would be flying to Botswana, Africa now to face his parents and beg for them to understand and bless our union. Before we made it official, Percy and I consulted my parents. Thousands of dollars had been spent planning the wedding. All of their friends knew about the upcoming wedding. Money would be lost and embarrassment felt if the wedding was called off. Would they be okay with that? To our surprise, they were adamant that their feelings and money were not near as important as starting off this marriage with both sets of parents’ blessings. Confident that God had ordained this marriage, they knew we would plan another date, and they were sure God would make a way to do the impossible: change Percy’s parent’s hearts. I (Percy) went home that Christmas, prepared for battle. Armed with pages of notes and reasons why my parents should allow this marriage to go on, I entered into my parent’s bedroom to have “the talk”. Little did I know, God had already gone ahead of me to change the hearts of my parents? Before I said a word to convince them, If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 154

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: In-Laws dad began asking how and when they could get tickets to fly to America for the wedding. We apologize for the length of this story, but we wanted to be as real and transparent as possible so you could see that sometimes it isn’t easy to honor your parents. We lost money, time, and our pride was a little damaged when we had to humbly call many of our guest and tell them we had to cancel our wedding. We ended up rescheduling our wedding for June 19, 2004. Percy’s father stood up in the presence of around 500 Americans in South Georgia and testified that God had changed his heart. He told a room full of strangers that despite the fact he tried to resist, he finally realized He couldn’t fight God. Tears filled the eyes of many listening that night! My grandfather, raised during a time of segregation in the Deep South, stood up and gave my father-in-law a heartfelt hug and was joined by my father. To see two older white men envelop my new African father-in-law in such a loving and welcoming embrace made my heart swell with pride and joy! The entire room erupted into a loud applause and stood to their feet to appreciate the moment! It was a beautiful testimony in a gorgeous wedding that laid a foundation for a wonderful relationship I have had with my in-laws for 16 years now. Whatever inconveniences we faced, it was WORTH it to honor our parents to pursue peace and obedience to God at all costs. Q: Mrs. Thaba (Senior) was asked, “What were your fears of having a white daughter-in-law?” A: My (Percy) mom was afraid I would go to America to be with Ashley. She feared I would also take my siblings. She and dad would be alone in their old age. That thought combined with wondering what others would say if their daughter-in-law couldn’t fit into the culture. Perhaps they would be judged. Surely this “white girl” could never understand our ways is what my dad thought. He felt I should marry a woman who understood our culture and our way of doing things. He didn’t think it Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 155

was smart to marry someone who didn’t know how to do things the Kalanga way. He wisely admits that none of us like change and exploring new options that require us to shift out of our comfort zones. My parents simply wanted to stay with what was comfortable and normal to them. Anything else was not welcomed at the time. The unknown of what could come in the future was too scary to willingly bless our relationship. Q: What changed my parent’s (Percy) minds? A: My (Percy) parents told us later that by the time I decided to fly back to Botswana to formally ask for Ashley’s hand in marriage in person, they had decided to bless our marriage. They later testified, as was said above, that they felt God had changed their hearts. They came to the realization that if they continued to refuse, despite the fact that I was trying to honor them, they would lose me forever. Rather than disown me, they began to realize I might not give in to their threats and come home. I actually might choose Ashley. Their plan might backfire, and they risked losing me forever. Q: What cultural adjustments did you (Ashley) have to make to fit into the Thaba family? A: Honestly, I (Ashley) have not had to do much. Percy’s family has been so accepting of me just the way I am. Also, with most of the adjustments they would require, I have already made those after living in Botswana for 14 years. I will share a few funny ones though just to answer the question. 1) In our American culture, we wash hands in a sink before we eat. However, in Botswana it is culturally polite to bring a bowl of warm water, soap and a cloth hung over the arm to the place the guests are seated before a meal. I am a very practical and logical person. In my mind, I am thinking if someone washes their dirty hands into a bowl that means one more thing I have to clean after dinner. Plus, I believe that washing hands under running water, like in a sink, is more effective. Therefore, although I “knew” of this cultural norm, I assumed it wasn’t a big deal if I offered the sink or kitchen sink when my in-laws came to my house for a meal. Thankfully, my in-laws are so humble and accommodating that they didn’t say anything that first time. It was Percy who told me afterwards that what I did was UNACCEPTABLE! I had to adapt! Now, I do try, although my father-in-law jokes that to really do it the right way, I need to get on my knees and kneel before them while I pour the water over his hands. So, I haven’t perfected it, but I am willing to keep trying to honor them! 2) Another small example is the cultural dress. When I first came to Botswana 20 years ago, I was always expected to wear a long dress to be modest and fit in the culture. This was hot and uncomfortable in a place with temperatures as If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 156

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: In-Laws high as Botswana! In respect of the culture, I submitted, but as soon as I walked into my home at night, I ripped off the hot long dresses and threw on shorts and a tank top! However, once I married Percy, when we would visit his parent’s home in the village of Tutume, I would remain in the hot attire even within the home. Percy mentioned to his mother that this was uncomfortable to me, unbeknown to me! His mother then graciously came to me and said, “We want you to feel at home in our house. Please feel free to know you can wear your shorts and a tank top here. This is now your house. But, please put the dress on when we go to my mother-in-law’s home!!” The lesson we would like you to take from these two small funny examples is that accommodating each other and accepting each other for how they are goes a long way to bring peace in a relationship. Many times we believe that when someone doesn’t do things our way, they must be disrespecting us! How rude of them! What we fail to use is empathy. Remember in conflict resolution, we discussed how important it was to learn to put yourself in another person’s shoes in order to solve conflicts more amicably. Percy’s parents and I both have learned to accept each other for how we are with minimal changes to try and conform the other to be like us. That has made a huge difference in allowing us to truly love and respect each other over the years. Q: Are your parents involved in decision making? A: We believe that there is wisdom in the counsel of many. Therefore, we take advantage of the years our parents have had that we have not. They have attained wisdom and life experience that gives us insight and encouragement into the life decisions we make. We always talk to them about what is going on in our lives. Thankfully, both of our parents treat us as independent adults and although they share what they would do, they completely trust us to choose the best path that works for the two of us. We are completely assured that they will respect us no matter what we choose to do, because they trust that we also ultimately will only do what we feel God leading us to do. We should add though for couples who struggle with what to do if the parent’s advice is different from what the two of them want to do. We firmly believe once you get married, the Bible is clear that we should leave our parent’s home and CLEAVE to one another. This means that once you are married, though it is wise to seek your parents’ counsel and advice, the ultimate decision that determines you and your married partner’s future should be made by the two of you considering what you believe God is saying and feel is best for your family. Many couples we counsel are in serious problems because one of the spouses is trying to impose what their parents want them to do when the other spouse is not convinced it is the best decision for the couple. Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 157

Q: What happens if the in-laws don’t respect the spouse? A: It is your job as the spouse to defend your partner! It is also your job to make SURE that you are their biggest cheerleader, especially in the presence of those who are looking for dirt to throw! We know it is culturally appropriate and acceptable in Botswana to run to your family every time you have a problem, however, we personally advise you do this only as a last resort. It is rare to find a family that won’t instinctively take their child’s side in a dispute, leading the other to feel ganged up on and unsupported. The other issue we see over and over is that many times the couple will work it out, but the in-laws never forgive how the partner may have hurt their child. Additionally, though, you two may decide to forgive and move on, the in-laws might keep bringing it up, adding fuel to a fire you have put out. If your in-laws don’t accept your spouse, make sure you find ways to praise your spouse and point out all the good in him/her until they begin to see why you fell in love with this person and respect your marital choice for a life partner. Q: If there is an issue with the in-laws, who should bring it up? A: This is another big problem we see in couples we talk to. Something has happened that makes one spouse feel uncomfortable in regards to the in-laws. Let’s make it real and share some examples of what this might look like. It could be that the in-laws are putting pressure to do something with your children in a specific way you don’t approve or agree with. It could be that a relative has overstayed his/her boundaries at your home. It could be a financial contribution you are being expected to make to the family fund which is out of your budget. It could be snide remarks of a mother-in-law when she comes to visit to her daughter-in-law. Making it Let’s put a name to the story to make it more practical. Say Joe’s uncle Practical asked to stay for a couple of weeks in your home until he could find a place to live. Initially, when Sally and Joe agreed to accommodate him, he insisted he wouldn’t stay more than a few weeks tops. 2 months have passed, and he shows no signs of moving out. Sally feels uncomfortable in her own home. She is tired of cooking and buying food for an extra person, doing laundry for an extra person, and having to be fully dressed around her home when she wants to just walk around in a casual nightgown. She wants her home back! She complains to Joe! Joe agrees the situation is undesirable but states there is nothing he can do because this is his uncle. He can’t very well throw him out to the streets or send him back to the village! Another couple of weeks passes. Now Sally and Joe’s relationship is becoming seriously strained because every day the uncle stays, Sally’s anger rises. Joe continues to be sympathetic in their private bedroom discussions, but remains quiet. One day, Sally cannot take it another day! She explodes, “WHEN ARE YOU If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 158

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: In-Laws LEAVING OUR HOME? YOU ARE A GROWN MAN! GET a job and GET OUT or go back to your home in the village! I NEED MY HOUSE BACK!” Joe finds out and is irate! How dare his wife embarrass him like that? Sally decides she doesn’t care! She realizes Joe was never going to say anything! Joe’s family holds meetings and gossips about Sally. They all decide that she is a problem and doesn’t love them because she isn’t hospitable. No one remembers the three months she faithfully and generously allowed the uncle to stay in their home. The in-law relationship is now strained. Joe and Sally’s relationship is strained. Problems abound as Joe feels the need to side with his family against his own wife. Here is what we advise. Joe needs to defend his wife. Always choose each other! You two are going to be together until death do you part! Make it pleasurable. Here is what Joe could say when Sally first shares her uncomfortable feelings. “Sally, I understand you are not happy. Even I am feeling a bit not completely at ease, but he is my family. Would you try and endure a little longer?” By giving Sally that option that she has buy in and a say, there is a good chance that Sally might agree to another week or two. In the meantime, Joe goes to the uncle. “Uncle, you know WE love you. (ALWAYS USE “WE”! DO NOT THROW YOUR SPOUSE UNDER THE BUS!) We understand when you came to town, you needed a place to stay, and we wanted to help out. However, WE feel it would be best if you found another place to live at this time. WE are sorry if this inconveniences you, however WE need to do what brings peace in our home and it has become a bit of a strain on us financially and emotionally trying to carry the weight of another person. You are welcome to stay 2 more weeks, but at that time, we need you to leave. Joe’s family still might call the family meeting, but now it is against JOE AND Sally. They have remained a united front. If Joe uses “WE”, then they can’t blame Sally. They now begin to see Sally and Joe as a unit. The incident shows Sally that Joe chooses her. Her love and appreciation for Joe, who protected her soars. Ultimately, Joe’s family will more quickly forgive him, and now the situation was handled nicely and respectfully, even if the uncle didn’t get to keep enjoying the free stay. ALWAYS use “We”. Always defend your spouse! Always choose that which is best for the two of you. She/he is the person you will go to sleep with every night, raise children with, and grow old spending every day together. Let me (Ashley) also brag on Percy’s parents on this point. I pray another parent will read this and be encouraged by their example! For Percy and me, Percy’s parents are very intentional about trying to protect our marriage. We don’t have to go to them in an uncomfortable decision. They are mindful that we have started our own family, and they never want anything in their family to put any type of wedge between us. Several times over the years, Percy’s father has actually called me and asked my opinion on a matter that he is considerate enough to realize might be stressing me. He allows me to honestly share any discomfort or hesitations. If it is a situation where he and Mrs. Thaba can step in, they gladly do so! If nothing can be done, he is thoughtful enough to personally thank Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 159

me for what I am doing, acknowledging how it is helping their family. With his kind appreciative words, I generally am able to persevere with whatever it is I am being asked to do with a smile and love in my heart. It has been such a blessing to know that Percy’s parents are doing everything in their power to protect us! Words can’t express the gratitude and appreciation I have for the respect they have for our marital union. Q: Ashley, did you ever resent Percy’s parents for trying to stop your wedding? A: The Bible in 1 Peter 4:8 says, “Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.” When God fills you for love for other, it truly allows you to overlook their faults and see life from their perspective. I could genuinely understand their apprehension. It was certainly not comfortable to me to be the object of tribulation, but God is very clear that we are called to love everyone. There is tremendous joy in choosing to love people despite how they treat you. I learned a long time ago that I could not control how people treat me. I could only control my reaction to their treatments. To allow someone’s undesirable actions to affect me was to give them the power to steal my joy. By choosing to love, I remained in control of the joy and peace I felt. When my mind would be tempted to be bitter about the inconveniences we were undergoing due to their lack of acceptance of our relationship, I would force myself to pray for them. I would remind myself of the kindness they had shared by offering me plates of food and a bed to sleep in when I was scared. God had allowed them to take me in and become a second family to me during my lonely days in Botswana; I couldn’t forget those kind acts just because I now didn’t get what I wanted. When they would call Percy in Canada, I would speak to them and try and ask how they were doing and show genuine love. Honestly, by the grace of God, I never held one bit of resentment or anger to them. God’s word is true – love covers a multitude of sins. I have nothing but pure deep love and respect for them. Q: A question was asked to the Thabas (Senior), “How is the relationship with your grandkids?” A: My (Percy) parents shared how they have a wonderful relationship with our children. When our kids see them, they run and give hugs and kisses. We have made it a point to take them to their home on holidays so that they can get to know their grandparents. Ashley has been very intentional about building a culture of love with my parents and our kids. From an early age, she would facilitate developing that relationship by giving my mom or dad a favorite book for them to read to the kids, knowing that would help the children warm up to them. As they got older, Ashley If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 160

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: In-Laws would get my parents to play a favorite game with the kids so they associated fun times with their grandparents. When we go to the village, Ashley is very intentional about making the kids help out in the house, so the kids will bless and respect my parents. It is very common for the kids and Ashley to spend hours in the kitchen cooking meals for my parents or helping with household chores. My son loves to be a part of the slaughtering of a goat with the older men in the village, and my daughters will sit with my wife and mom washing clothes by hand under the shade of a tree. When we are not with my parents, Ashley is intentional about sending videos and pictures through the cell phone or having the kids greet my parents on phone calls. Before we could send pictures through the cell, Ashley would make it a point to print pictures every time we would go for a visit for my parents to put on their refrigerator so that they could smile every time they open the fridge, remembering they were loved by their grandchildren. May I use my wife as a model to encourage wives? Speaking as a man, it is incredibly attractive and amazing when our wives make an effort to help our children love our parents. For us men, when our wives show that type of respect to our parents, it makes us feel such pride and joy. Women, you have a lot of power to help bridge the grandchildren/grandparent relationship with how you raise your children to treat their grandparents. This is also an area of opportunity to deepen the emotional intimacy between you and your spouse. Q: Percy, have you taken Ashley to the farm life? A: Of course, as African men, we do love to connect with the soil! I (Percy) am no different! Ashley honestly doesn’t enjoy the farm life of Botswana. It is hot and dusty, however, one thing I love about my wife is that she will do whatever I want just to support me. Once she decides to do it, she will not complain. She will force herself to see the good in it and enjoy it with me, because she knows I don’t want to take her to a place I enjoy and listen to her complain about how miserable it is. Therefore, she works alongside of me every step of the way. In fact, because she enjoys gardening, she puts her special touches making our farm even more productive and beautiful. She is also incredibly creative and practical, so she is always coming up with innovative ideas on how we can get more out of our land. Let me take this opportunity to encourage the wives again. Women, we know that the farm/cattle post might not be your ideal. However, if your husband wants you to accompany him to go to a place he loves, go to please him. We have met many wives that complain that they never see their husbands on weekends because he is at the farm. For us, we believe it is better to endure a bit of discomfort to share life together. Also, the more you begin to enjoy and get used to separate weekend activities, the more temptation and opportunity for one of you to begin having an affair. It just becomes easy to use the “farm” as a cover story and excuse to go to another woman’s home or for the wife to go to the arms of another man when she knows her husband Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 161

is away for the weekend. We encourage couples, early on, to begin the good habit of sharing life together, even if that means spending some weekends by your husband’s side at a dusty hot Botswana farm! I would like to also encourage husbands to involve their wives in the farm decision making, be it to purchase one or maintain it. Your wife will definitely buy in if she is consulted and her opinion matter instead of just being informed. Q: The Thabas (Senior) were asked, “Do you expect Ashley to speak the local language?” A: My (Percy) parents have been so accommodating in the sense that they don’t expect Ashley to speak our language since they are fluent in English. One thing about Ashley that makes me so proud is that she has gone out of her way to try and learn to speak my language. She makes my parents very proud when we are in the village because she knows enough to have simple conversations and impress the relatives. Ashley’s biggest problem though is that although her vocabulary is quite expansive and her ability to speak is impressive at a basic conversational level, she struggles to hear what we are saying when we begin talking fast! Ashley and I laugh about that because many people say she talks too fast, and they can’t understand her English. She definitely understands how other people feel because she feels the same way when people are speaking Setswana! I (Ashley) want to chip in on this one and again just brag on my in-laws for accepting me as I am. I can’t stress enough how grateful I am for that gift and how much I encourage all in-laws to learn to accept the strengths and weaknesses in their new family member (son/daughter in law). Q: Ashley, do you have any plans of going back to America? A: Percy and I made a huge faith move when we came back to America. We had a really great life in America, where Percy was making a lot of money. We were very comfortable externally. We also spent a full year and a lot of money to get Percy a green card. Had we stayed, he could have easily applied for American citizenship. It was tempting. However, we believe God has a purpose for us. We believe strongly that God called us to come back to Botswana to try and strengthen families and teach Biblical principles in such a way to bless the nation. God has been faithful to open up many doors to do that. When we get to live in the fulfillment of what we feel we were created to do, it brings incredible internal satisfaction. There are most certainly a lot of external comforts I have had to forgo to live in Botswana. In order to make this real, I will name a few. I don’t say this to complain, but just to answer this question as honestly as possible. Where I come from, public schools are excellent. School fees here are astronomically high creating a burdensome monthly financial expense, and the quality of education is not as high as the free public school experience my children would get in America. If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 162

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: In-Laws Additionally, where I come from, our crime rates are so low that we have no need to put walls around our yard, burglar bars on our windows, alarm systems, or any type of protective features. We feel completely safe. Unfortunately, here in the capital city of Botswana, I do not feel safe. I, and almost every friend I know, have been robbed countless times. I have been a victim of a smash and grab where I was robbed while simply sitting at a traffic light waiting for a light to turn green. It is not a nice external feeling to not be able to go out peacefully or sleep peacefully because you never know if a thief is going to strike. Also, my parents are very amazing grandparents, and sadly my children only get to see them once every year or two. Even then, it is usually for a maximum of a month. I can’t begin to express the heart wrenching sadness I feel that my children do not really know my parents nor have the ability that my sister’s children have to spend every day growing up alongside my parents. Holidays are so very hard because I grew up with a very close knit extended family that spent every holiday together in love and laughter. My children don’t get to experience those same memories that my extended family in America still share with all my cousin’s children. Corruption is also an awful reality my husband and I face here. He struggles to get steady work simply because he isn’t willing to pay bribes or call in favors with friends in high places. It is very hard knowing in America he was appreciated simply because he is GOOD at what he does. Here, people are reluctant to hire him, not because he isn’t an excellent Project Manager, but because he refuses to participate in corrupt practices. That creates financial strain on our family and small business. I explain all that to help you understand that living here has certainly introduced me to external discomforts I may not experience in America. However, unless God changes my heart, I have no intention of moving back because ultimately I do not exist to be externally comfortable, but rather to do the will of God for my life. For now, I am convinced to my core that God wants me here in Botswana to shine for Jesus and lead those around me to know Him and His word better. There isn’t a day that goes by that I don’t pray for Botswana! I pray God blesses this nation and uses me to be a blessing to those around me here. The joy and peace I feel living a life that makes a positive impact on others outweighs any earthly discomforts I might be enduring to live apart from my family and home country. Q: Is there pressure to conform to family pressures at extended family gatherings? A: Again, I (Ashley) can’t stress enough how blessed I have been that my parents- in-law do not try and force us to do anything we aren’t comfortable with. Percy’s parent’s home is 6 hours away from our city, making it a 12 hour round trip. Percy’s parents could try and make us feel guilty for not going home for every wedding and funeral, but instead they are very understanding of the fact those long trips put strain on us and can’t be made as often as we all would like. Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 163

However, when we are home, I try and make every minute count! Whatever I can do to be a blessing to his family, I am intentional about doing my best. If that means peeling carrots and potatoes outside with the other ladies to prepare for a big event, I will be there. If that means helping with meal preparations, I happily oblige. Or, if that means I have to bow before the men in the village while going person to person serving tea or pouring water to wash hands, I will do that with a smile. I am their daughter-in-law, and I love them. Their love and acceptance of me pushes me to WANT to do whatever I can to make them proud and happy to have me in their home and in their lives. Q: Ashley, what advice do you have for ladies who are facing rejection from their in-laws? A: This is common and I have met with many ladies who feel this way. When this occurs, the temptation is to distance yourself from the unpleasant encounters. This forces the husband to choose between his parents and his wife. It creates tension no matter what he chooses. Feelings of bitterness grow as both sides continue to find reasons to not like the other person because neither is putting in an effort. The attitude from the daughter is, “I tried and they didn’t accept me, so I am done.” The attitude of the parents is to tell the son, “This wife of yours is no good. She doesn’t respect us.” A stale mate is reached and neither makes any effort to bridge the gap. The poor husband is now stuck in the middle and doesn’t know what to do or who to please. Women, pray for your in-laws. Please know that prayer works at changing the hardest of hearts. Also, remember that love covers a multitude of sin! Go love them. Serve them. Do not do it in order to get a good response. You may or you may not, but you will know you are trying your best. Your husband will see and be proud of your efforts. Serve them with kindness and love out of respect for your husband and out of obedience to God to love others and honor your elders. They may not ever give you a chance, but I highly doubt that. I am pretty sure if your husband uses the tips we gave above to sing your praises, and you serve them wholeheartedly with love and respect, I believe your gentle spirit will soften their hearts. I believe you will all be blessed, but one of you has to make the first move. I encourage you daughters, let it be you who takes those small steps towards reconciliation. Q: Mrs. Thaba, what lessons would you give to other mothers-in- laws? A: Her answer was to advise people not to be too quick to judge. She said, “Ashley has brought unbelievable joy and love into our family.” My (Percy) mom was sharing that if her prejudice had kept her from preventing this marriage, she would have robbed herself of one of the greatest blessings God has given our family. She urged If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 164

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: In-Laws other mothers-in-laws to give their daughters-in-laws a chance. She further said, “Who knows? Maybe the person you want to push away will be the one who brings you unimaginable blessings.” Below are questions for YOU to do either alone or with your spouse to help you deal more deeply with this issue of In-Laws. Q: What is the biggest take away for you from this episode of In-Laws? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: What did you think of Percy & Ashley’s story of having to postpone their wedding to respect the authority of their parents? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: What would you have done if you would have been in their shoes? Why? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 165

Q: What did you think of Ashley saying she heard God saying, “You will marry Percy Thaba.” before she met Percy? How does God speak to you? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Do you share any interests with your in-laws that their child (your spouse) doesn’t share with them? If not, we would like to challenge you to find out because it might be a fun exercise to bond more with your in-laws. __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: What did you think of Percy's advice to be careful what you say about your spouse to your relatives because they can hold grudges a lot longer than you? You get over it, but they may always look at your spouse in a negative light. __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Do you feel parents should have a say in how you make decisions as a couple? How much say should they have if their voice is different than what you two, as the couple, want to do? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 166

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: In-Laws __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Ashley was asked if she has had to make any compromises to fit into Percy's family. Have you had to make any compromises to fit into your spouse's family? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: If your parents don't like your spouse for whatever reason, what are you willing to do about it? Will you protect your spouse or choose your parents? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: How much influence would you say your parents have in your marriage? Is the influence a healthy one? If not, what can you do to protect your marriage? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 167

Q: Are your parents too attached to you and your spouse has to compete for attention? If yes, then what are you willing to do to choose your spouse more? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: What did you think of Percy's comment about asking his wife before he makes a decision, including decisions that he needs to make for his parents or siblings? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 168

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Affair Proofing your Marriage Affair Proofing your Marriage Affairs have wreaked havoc on so many families. Chances are every one of us knows at least one couple who has been guilty of an affair. Affairs happen when your spouse doesn’t meet your emotional and physical needs and you go elsewhere to meet those needs. In this episode, we tried to give you some practical tips on how to really enjoy your marriage, how to be intentional about making sure your spouse is your lover, your best friend, and your recreational companion. We believe your spouse can be someone that you truly enjoy being around and talking to. Our goal in sharing these tips is that you will find so much fulfilment in the company of your spouse that you actually aren’t even tempted to look elsewhere because all your needs are met at home. Q: What is some advice you can give to couples to affair proof their marriages? A: We provided 6 tips below: 1) Never say never. When we counsel couples, so many times they say I never thought it would happen to us. Let’s use an example that has nothing to do with marriage. Imagine you feel that you will never get robbed. You don’t put a lock on your door, you don’t put a wall around, you don’t put an alarm system in place, etc. The thief looks at you and says “There is an easy target!” As long as you have hormones in your body, both of you will feel tempted at some point. There will be days when you do not feel love for your spouse. There will be days when you might even want to give up and look elsewhere. Your best plan of defense is one of offense. Talk about these things ahead of time and figure out what you plan on doing WHEN those times come not IF those times come. 2) Prioritize spending quality time together. We have spent time talking extensively in other chapters about the importance of emotional intimacy, so we won’t rehash that here, but we cannot underestimate the power of spending time together. A good marriage is built on a good friendship where you enjoy each other’s company. During this time, put the phones away, and make sure you look each other in the eyes. 3) Play together and pray together. The couple that prays together stays together, as the saying goes. Both playing and praying are very good ways to affair proof your marriage. All of your quality time does not need to be serious eye to eye deep conversations. There is tremendous opportunity to bond by doing fun activities together! Plus, remember what we talked about in His Needs/Her needs. Men have a need for recreational companionship. Praying Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 169

together helps you to open up your heart and your spiritual side to each other. That develops more emotional and spiritual intimacy, as well as unites you with a similar focus and purpose. We talked extensively about this one in spirituality, so we just wanted to mention it here. 4) Be intentional about non-sexual touches. Holding hands throughout the day, giving kisses spontaneously throughout the day, frequently just holding each other in a hug, a flirty fun pat on the bum when you walk through the kitchen and see your beautiful wife cooking, holding hands as you stroll through the mall, sitting with your arm around your woman at an event… the list is endless. The point is those touches create a bond between the two of you reminding you constantly that you two are sharing life together. Strengthen your physical connection. 5) Another way to strengthen your physical connection is to make it a point to have sex regularly. That sounds crude to say that so bluntly, but the honest truth that we find with many couples we counsel is that after the honeymoon phase of marriage wears off and life gets busy, sex gets pushed to the back burner of priorities in the marriage. It needs to be something you both make a plan and are intentional about doing on a regular basis to make sure the temptation to go outside the home is not even there, because all the sexual needs are met at home. Note for men on this point: Keep in mind that sex begins in the kitchen! What we mean is that your women will be much more responsive to your bedroom needs if you are intentional about meeting her emotional needs throughout the day through touch, spending time together, and giving her attention in general. Don’t just look her way when you want something! Ha! 6) Be intentional about thinking positive thoughts about your spouse. Train your mind to see the good in them. Try and tell them throughout the day so that you verbalize praiseworthy comments as well that get your mind and mouth focusing on noble edifying thoughts. Human nature is that we tend to see the negative in people. When we start seeing the negative in our spouse, we start to romanticize someone else. Here is the thing. There is no perfect person. If you get to know that person, you will find they have their mistakes too. Just be careful you haven’t spent so much time building someone else up in your mind that you end up losing what you have to go see if the grass is greener on the other side. Once you get up close and personal, you will realize they have faults too. By the time you realize the new person isn’t as perfect as you imagined, you may have lost what was ACTUALLY much greener seeking out “new pastures.” Choose to focus on the positive in your spouse! Q: What if one spouse is an introvert and just prefers to do things alone? A: I (Percy) will answer this one because I am an introvert. There is nothing wrong with wanting to have your alone time. However, you got married because you wanted If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 170

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Affair Proofing your Marriage to share your life with another person. That person now needs you and your attention. Talk about it. Explain your needs and listen to your spouse’s needs. Figure out ways to compromise so that both people get their needs met. Making it For example, you might say, “I understand you need my attention. I do Practical want to meet your needs, but when I get home from work, I must recharge before I spend time with you. A full day of being at work has me totally depleted. Can we agree that I will come home and have “me” time for one hour? After that hour, I will come and spend time with you. I wanted to share that with you in advance so that you don’t think I am avoiding you.” With good communication where you both express your needs, you can still find ways to compromise and get your alone time and still meet the other person’s need for quality time together. There is a problem though if every time you have free time you want to spend it alone. It is normal to need some me time, but you do need to seriously introspect and figure out what the root problem is if you seem to always avoid quality time with your spouse because you are supposed to be “doing life together.” Q: What are examples of thoughtful things you can do for your partner so that you keep the fire burning? A: There are so many things. We did a chapter on love languages. Each person is different so find creative ways to speak his/her love language. We also did a chapter on His needs/Her needs, so you can find thoughtful ways to always make sure you are meeting their needs. To make it practical, we will just give you a few of our personal examples: 1) When we were pregnant with our first child, we lived in America. Percy was waiting to get a green card so that he could legally work. Therefore, I (Ashley) was supporting us at the time doing Personal Training. As an ACE certified Personal Trainer, there was high demand, and I couldn’t afford to stop training clients just because I was pregnant. Until 38 weeks pregnant, I was still training clients and teaching exercise classes 7-8 hours a day! You can imagine how exhausted I was when I came home. Meanwhile, as much as Percy wanted to help, he could not legally work and earn any income until he got that work permit. As a small token of appreciation, when he would see my swollen feet from standing all day long, he would always give me a foot rub. That habit has continued now and my oldest is 12 years old. It is a small little gesture that makes me feel so pampered at the end of my long days. 2) Perhaps there is a meal he really enjoys. Surprise him and make him the delicious dinner. They say the best way to a man’s heart is through his stomach! Nothing makes a man feel more loved than when his wife really goes out of her way to please him by making him a home cooked meal she knows he will enjoy. Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 171

3) Maybe one of you, probably the wife, always supervises homework. Tell your spouse that she deserves a break and you will supervise homework all this week so she can have some “me” time. 4) Surprise your spouse at work with a meal or snacks just to let them know you were thinking about them and wanted to meet a need. It is a wonderful feeling to be working hard and then your spouse show up unexpectedly bringing a nice treat to eat. 5) Send thoughtful messages throughout the day expressing your love and appreciation for one another. Those are just a few examples to just get your wheels turning. Q: Practically for men, we are driven by what we see. What happens when you see something else other than that which you have? A: First of all, we advise you flee temptation. Again, as we stated earlier no one is too strong to resist if you keep putting yourself in tempting situations so don’t play with fire! To do this, the best thing is to talk very openly about what boundaries you both are comfortable with. Some people don’t mind if their spouse goes out to a meal with a person of the opposite sex. Others would be livid! Another person won’t mind if you chat with a friend of the opposite sex on the phone. Another might feel uncomfortable. The boundaries are for the two of you to come up with. They need to be clear and defined so that if you are doing that thing that your spouse is not comfortable with, a warning bell goes off in your mind that you are entering a danger zone, and you need to flee! Making it Another tactic we use is unique and we realize it won’t work for everyone Practical but it works well for us. I (Percy) sometimes look at a girl and before I know it my mind is wandering to places it shouldn’t! I actually do not WANT it to start thinking impure thoughts, but it just happens. I have found that if I tell Ashley what I am thinking, it frees me. It is no longer my dirty little secret and exposing it makes it lose its appeal. Something about shining light into darkness always dispels it! It also holds me accountable if we are together and the lady comes, because now I will really watch my actions because I have already told my wife I am physically attracted to that lady! That provides extra accountability for me to watch my actions. I am able to do this with Ashley because she is an extremely secure woman who understands I am not telling her this to make her jealous or angry, but rather because I want her help in fighting these temptations. Additionally, Ashley and I both understand that temptation will come and we don’t fault the other for being human. The thoughts are normal. Whether we choose to perpetually dwell on them and eventually act on them is when the problems start. As long as you are honest with If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 172

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Affair Proofing your Marriage yourself and with your spouse, that temptation is not going to get a foothold to destroy your marriage. Let’s make this more practical. I am a Computer Engineer/Project Manager by profession. That means I have to put bids/tenders in on a lot of Projects to get work. There was a season where I kept being paired with this one lady at work. Due to the fact that we frequently had to read over documents on the computer to work together to turn in proposals, that put us sitting closely and looking at the same computer screen together. Honestly, the lady was not as beautiful as Ashley. I didn’t have any friendship with her outside of work, but just the close proximity made me start thinking thoughts that I knew were not healthy. Add that to the fact that many times, everyone else would leave the office and we would remain chasing tight deadlines ‘til late at night. Let’s just say I could see it was a recipe for disaster! I confided in Ashley what I was struggling through. Together, we had to come up with a game plan. It wasn’t practical to quit my job. At the time, we had small kids and had moved back to Botswana, and I was the sole bread winner for our home so she could stay home full time raising our children. She and I devised a strategy. We knew I wasn’t going to do anything during the day while there were people at work and in and out of the office. The temptation to act on these feelings would come at night when we were alone in the office, therefore we made an agreement that I would never close the office door. I also would call Ashley every time I knew we would be working late together. I wanted her to surprise me with visits so that I never knew when she would show up. Since my wife is a super friendly person, she would often come up to the office with the kids and bring the lady and me some dinner and really got to know the lady. The more the lady understood that I was a happily married man with children, and my wife was a kind person who showed interest in truly getting to know her, the less attractive the lady was. The more attractive my wife was to me. How many ladies would actually genuinely befriend a “lust interest” of their husband? That is how awesome my wife is! I never cheated on my wife then nor since, because we are honest with each other if there are any temptations, and we come up with practical strategies to fight the temptations together. One last additional piece of advice on this subject is to be honest with a colleague at work if this is occurring. Tell them straight, “I want to be faithful to my spouse, but I have realized my heart is skipping a beat when X starts talking to me. I can tell I am enjoying his/her company a little more than I should! Can you help hold me accountable so I don’t do something I regret in a moment of passion? If he/she invites me to lunch, just invite yourself along. If you see me lingering too long at her/his desk, call me away from there. Just help hold me accountable please.” Remember, the best defense is a good offense. Be honest with yourself and others and come up with a plan to affair proof your marriage! Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 173

Q: Please advise us on the use of cellphones in marriage. A: The Bible says the two became one, so for us, we have chosen to not keep any secrets from one another because we are “one”. What that means practically is that we have each other’s passwords to our cellphones, our computers, our bank accounts and pretty much at any given point during the day, we know where the other person is. That isn’t because we are insecure and checking up on each other. That is simple because we are best friends, sharing life together and have nothing to hide from the other person. When you are living life in the light, you have no reason to withhold your cell phone from your spouse. There is nothing to hide, so no need to stress over it in any way. Q: How do we, as men, deal with our wives when they spend more time with our children than us, their husbands? A: This is a very real problem in a lot of marriages where the husband actually feels second place to the wife. It really creates a lot of instability and insecurity. We have touched on this issue above so we won’t go into too much detail again here except to reiterate how extremely important it is for you both to realize that you are meant to be together until death do you part. Your job as parents is to raise your children in such a way that they actually LEAVE you and go start their own families. It is important to safeguard your marital relationship by ensuring the two of you stay friends and talk about things other than the kids, so when they leave you two still have a friendship that is built on common interest and a mutual respect and you enjoy each other’s company. To the man who is experiencing this, may I, Percy, offer a word of encouragement? Many times the wife would like to spend more quality time with you but she is overwhelmed. Reach out. Ask her how you can help. Remember what we have talked about over and over. Communicate with “I feel”. You can say, “I am feeling neglected and second place to the children. Is there anything specific I can do to help with the kids to free up your time to spend with me?” Remember – share feelings and not accusations. Also, offer solutions not just criticisms! Let me, Ashley, add something on this. I have counselled many couples who are experiencing this problem. Many times the man actually really feels the kids don’t WANT him to spend time with them so he hangs back scared of their rejection. PLEASE PLEASE can I tell you if your child is acting like that and doing the “I WANT MOMMY” thing, do NOT give in. That is simply because they have become comfortable with “mommy”. You might have to WORK to spend time with them so that they become comfortable, but I can assure you it is WORTH IT! I can also assure you that deep down every child DEEPLY desires to be loved by their father! If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 174

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Affair Proofing your Marriage So, if you are feeling this, let me give you a few practical ways to break the ice and bridge the gap to begin a better relationship with your children so that it isn’t mommy and the kids and you feel like you are not all together as a unit. 1) Do something! Kids respond well to a mutually fun activity. They might say they don’t want to, but insist if you know they will enjoy it. They will break down soon and forget they were mad that you weren’t around and begin to enjoy themselves. Choose something age appropriate – small children can be a simple game in the house. 7-12 – go for ice cream, kick the soccer ball in the yard, etc. 12-18 - go for a camp out in one of Botswana’s beautiful game parks, ask for help with the braai/grilling so you have time to just sit and chat while waiting for coals to be hot, go to a sports event together, etc. 2) No matter what age they are, be intentional about asking them about their life during this time. ALSO – do this regularly enough for them to warm up to you. Kids are smart. They will not open up to someone who shows interest today and is too busy to remember they exist for a couple of weeks following the bonding activity. 3) Your wife will also find your attempts to bond with the kids very attractive, because remember most women have a NEED for family commitment and find it so endearing to see their husbands putting forth the effort to bond with their children. Therefore, this investment gets you “points” with the wife and the children!  Q: How can couples manage long distance relationships? A: This is a real problem that exists for many couples. Living apart contributes greatly to the temptation to have an affair. It is just a fact that it is going to be harder for your spouse to meet your spending quality time needs, recreational companion needs, your sexual needs, your need for non-sexual soft touches throughout the day, and many other needs that really just need the two of you to be together. Making it We personally have made a decision between us that we will not live Practical apart. In our entire marriage, the longest we have been apart was the 7 weeks when Ashley went to America to give birth to our third child. The airlines refuse to let pregnant ladies fly in their last trimester, and I couldn’t take off 12 weeks of work, so Ashley and our other two children went alone and I (Percy) only joined them after 7 weeks for 5 weeks. Had it not been that our second born suffered severe medical negligence which left him brain damaged, we would have given birth in Botswana and never travelled at all. (SIDE NOTE – You can download that book, Conquering the Giants, from our website www.ashleythaba.com to find out about our story with our son. You will be SOO encouraged to read that story of hope, miracles, and forgiveness!) My point in sharing that is to illustrate we really have made it a point to not be apart in our 16 years of marriage. We are just better together. The love and joy we feel in Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 175

our lives when we are together far surpasses any monetary gain we might be able to make if we lived apart. For us, we decided we would rather live on less money but live together, than be rich be apart. This has not always been easy. Serious sacrifices have been made in order for us to live together even when Ashley wasn’t able to go where the jobs were. When school was too expensive, she homeschooled our children for 10 years. We didn’t go on vacations. We didn’t eat out often. Ashley learned to garden in order to cut our grocery bill. Ashley learned to cook from scratch so that we didn’t go out much but rather enjoyed home cooked meals. In Botswana, where household help is relatively cheap and most families have fulltime help, Ashley chose to do those chores to keep our monthly budget down. She even let me cut her hair so that we could cut out the hair salon bill. She didn’t buy a new item of clothing for 10 solid years. I am bragging on my wife because I am so proud of her, but I am also trying to illustrate that when you make radical decisions to stay together, there might be actual financial sacrifices you have to both make, but we can testify there is nothing in us that regrets choosing to be together all these years. I will share one more practical story that we shared in the episode, again just trying to make this practical so that you know everything we are sharing, we are living ourselves. Ashley and I had a great life in America after I graduated with a Computer Engineering degree from Canada. I had a job that paid more money than I could ever dream. We lived in the same town as Ashley’s parents. I had a green card (permanent residency) in America. In many ways, it is what I had dreamed of my whole life growing up in Botswana, Africa. However, we have discussed purpose at length throughout this book, and one thing Ashley and I both were clear on from the beginning of our relationship is that we existed together to bless others. Our life was great in America, but we had little impact on those around us. We both felt God telling us to quit the job and move back to Botswana to work with families and strengthen the families God put in our paths in Botswana. We made that move in faith in 2008 with a 9 month old baby girl. We left the “American dream” to come back to a place where I had no job, no car, no house and 2 dependents (Ashley and our 9 month old baby). It was scary but we knew that was what God called us to. I got a job, but the job demanded very long hours and soon we felt I had fallen into the corporate rat race and wasn’t spending the quality time I wanted with my family as well as having time to minister to other families. After 5 years, we decided to take another radical step of faith. We decided I would quit to start my own Project Management firm so that I would have more control over my hours. At the time, our government was saying they wanted to support local business owners and many of the companies I had been working with my previous employer had said they were so impressed with my skills, work ethics, and integrity that they would love to work with me. Once I quit, I realized it was all talk and no action. Corruption dominated. People who “knew people” got jobs. They wanted to hire companies with experience but my company couldn’t get experience without someone giving us a chance. The government said they wanted to empower locals, but the processes in reality prevented us from even having a chance. We went 19 months without work despite the fact I did presentations and had meetings trying to sell our services every day. If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 176

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Affair Proofing your Marriage Thankfully, due to my wife’s financial planning abilities and her willingness to forgo a lot of comforts, we were managing by the grace of God. Then, I got a call. A big company wanted to hire me for a very lucrative project. They wanted to pay me P100,000 a month ($10,000) to manage this project. The job would require that I travelled for at least 6 months managing a huge nationwide project. The nature of the job was that I would not be in one place more than a week and then move on. There was no way Ashley and the kids could join me. Due to strict timelines of the project, I wouldn’t be able to come home often either. At the time, our kids were still very young, and my poor wife was already so overwhelmed with raising three children with no house help. All of our family lives far away so unfortunately, we have never had any practical support in relieving her burdens. With the exception of Caleb (because we were in the hospital), my wife had to come home from the hospital from giving birth and start going to grocery store, cooking meals, and cleaning the house because there was no one to offer that practical support to alleviate any of her child raising burdens. She never had a break. We prayed about this job opportunity that would make us a lot of money, but leave my wife more alone than normal. Was this God providing? We certainly needed the money! We went back to our core beliefs. Making money was never as important to us as staying together as a family. The more we prayed, we felt God affirming that we needed to trust Him and say no. Can you imagine how hard that was to say no to a job like that after 19 months of going without any salary!? Were we CRAZY!? Soon after, God provided money through another opportunity in a miraculous way. We were so grateful we didn’t throw our values out when we got desperate. Had we done that, we wouldn’t have been able to see God provide for our family, and we would have added a lot of stress if we were apart for 6 months. We really want to challenge couples with this story to say choosing each other is not always easy, but it is always worth it! However, having said all that, we do know that sometimes a couple will need to be apart for a season. If that is the case, you will need to work a lot harder to maintain your friendship and intimacy. It is not impossible, but harder. You can do it by the grace of God and your utmost commitment to one another. Just make sure you are intentional about coming up with a plan of how you will guard your marriage from affairs and how you will maintain intimacy living apart. Q: Is pornography wrong? Is it like an affair? A: Different people have different views on this, but we will try and be as honest as possible to share our personal views. We personally believe that God gave the two of us the tools to make each other happy. We feel it is dangerous to introduce third parties into our marriage to “spice” things up. This is our personal belief. We have counselled couples over the years where porn has ruined their marriages. Let us be practical and share a few reasons why. (good yellow box below) Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 177

1) The spouse who is pushing hard for the porn to turn them on can leave the other wondering why they aren’t enough. “Why am I not enough to get my spouse excited? Why does he/she want to see another person to arouse them?” It can be especially hard for ladies when they are being compared to an airbrushed and polished production which isn’t real. They will never measure up so if that becomes your standard, you are setting the other up to fail and always feel inadequate! It can lead to feelings of insecurity, awful feelings of being compared to someone else, and feelings of jealousy. 2) Many times a couple or one of the spouses thinks that they will just have a look a few times. After a while, as with any stimuli, your body gets used to that and you need something fresh and more often. It soon becomes an addiction and it consumes your mind. For Ashley and I, we try and practice a principle in the Bible found in Philippians 4:8 which says, “Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.” Also, in Proverbs 4:23 the Bible says, “Above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it.” We are certainly not perfect, but we have realized we are happier people and a more fulfilled couple when we are choosing to focus on thoughts that are pure and honorable. It helps us be more productive in general as well when our mind isn’t spending time in lustful thinking replaying certain images we are willfully exposing ourselves to. 3) We have also counselled couples who state that they use porn as a substitute for sex with their spouse because of various reasons. If we are to be graphic, sex can take work. It isn’t like the movies. In real life, you need to put work into creating emotional and physical intimacy. Porn gets to that level of arousal with no “work”. It certainly seems like a faster solution. However, we would encourage you that you are robbing yourself of the JOY of what your marriage can be if you are NOT putting in the work it takes to get to a place where you BOTH want to be part of sexual intimacy with each other! It is a short term “fix” which leads to long term problems. This is a personal decision the couple needs to make, but our advice would be to find fun ways to satisfy each other without the need of pornography. Q: Many times as Christians we try and over spiritualize everything, so we don’t get very excited about sex. How can we be encouraged to know that sex is good and when we do it with our spouses, God is watching and happy? A: We thought that it was excellent for someone to bring that up. It is sad the way the church can tend to downplay something God created to be so beautiful and play such an important role in our marriages. In fact, in 1 Corinthians 7:3-5 it says, “The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 178

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Affair Proofing your Marriage husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.” Following the teaching from this scripture, you can tell your spouse that you are just following the Bible by wanting to have sex on a regular basis! If you want some juicy pillow talk to spice things up in the bedroom, look no further than the Biblical book of Song of Solomon which is full of all kinds of racy talk about how great sex is. Let’s remember this. We are created beings. Every cell of our bodies are designed with great care. There are no accidents. If something feels pleasurable, that was intentionally designed by our Creator. The world wants to pollute something that God made to be a glue that binds you together as a couple. In the Bible, the word “to know each other” is used when referring to sex. It gives the connotation that when you engage in physical intimacy, you are literally connecting your soul and your body and getting to “know” someone on the most personal and private level that exists. To cheapen that by connecting your body with anyone other than your spouse is to play with your heart and to play with your soul. Whether we want to admit it or not, when we start sleeping with people other than our spouse, it damages our internal peace within us. It leads to heartbreak, emotional distress, and spiritual distance affecting your relationship with God. It can lead you to begin to feel shame, which can affect your mental capacity to feel joy and peace, while decreasing your self confidence levels. Many times affairs are covered up by a series of lies and deception, which creates internal stress and can literally tear apart relationships and scar people’s hearts for life. You were made to bond your soul to your spouse. Your spouse should be the only person in this world who “knows” you in every single way – emotionally, physically, sexually, intellectually, spiritually so that the two of you literally become ONE and no one should tear that union apart! This does please God, as the gentleman so wisely said. When something pleases God, it means ultimately it will please YOU because God’s laws are not burdensome. They are meant to give us an abundant life. Remember the One who makes the rules knows how to best play the game! Let’s not believe the lie that married sex is boring and you need an affair to spice up your life. Hollywood wants to sell you that story. Take a good look at the Hollywood actors and actresses that are buying into that story – lives on front page magazines for the world to see that are being plagued with depression, substance abuse, heart ache, and moving from one person to another. Is that really the gold standard of happiness we should aspire to have? Percy and I would argue that having one person who knows every single thing about you and has committed to spend their life making you happy and putting effort into being your best friend and lover is WAY more satisfying! Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 179

Below are questions for YOU to do either alone or with your spouse to help you deal more deeply with this issue of Affair Proofing your Marriage. Q: Do you think it is realistic to be faithful to one person for life? How is that possible? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: What do you think of the fact that we tell each other if we are having feelings for another person? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Have you ever thought about the fact that God is pleased when you are enjoying sex with your spouse? What did you think of the question from the man asking what to do if a spouse is not comfortable discussing sexual issues because they over spiritualize the matter? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Do you think couples should live apart? If so, for what reasons should they live apart? How can they affair proof the marriage while apart? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 180

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Affair Proofing your Marriage Q: What are thoughtful things you can do for your spouse to keep the fire burning? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: We listed some specific ways to affair proof your marriage at the beginning of this chapter. Do you have other ways? List them below or write down specific ones we advised to do that you want to work on. Do you think married couples should use porn? Why or why not? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: We said they share everything from bank accounts, cell phone passwords, email passwords, etc. Would you want this type of openness in your marriage? Why or why not? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: What do you think of our advice to choose to think positive thoughts about your spouse? Can you name 10 things you absolutely love about your spouse? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 181

Q: Which boundaries do you already have in place to affair proof your marriage? Which boundaries do you feel are still needed? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: The question was asked, “What if I like to be alone?” What place do you feel \"alone\" time has in a marriage? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Do you feel like your spouse is your lover, your best friend, and your general partner in all areas of your life? What can you do to improve this if you don't feel this way to make sure that your spouse is meeting every need you have so you aren't tempted to get those needs met elsewhere? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 182

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Substance Abuse Substance Abuse Substance Abuse is a real problem. Children end up dropping out of school. Drunk drivers hit innocent people on the roads. Serious crimes are committed when people are trying to do anything to get the next fix for more money to buy alcohol or drugs. What about on marriage? Does Substance Abuse affect marriages? Of course it does! We all know it does! As a matter of fact what happens is that money that should have been spent on children and household necessities is now diverted to be spent on alcohol or drugs which now causes serious financial difficulties for the family. Additionally, most people really enjoy doing drugs or alcohol with other people that are doing the same thing, so you will find that you end up going to the bar instead of staying home with the family. The other problem with alcohol is that it causes you to do things that you wouldn’t do when you’re sober. So you end up doing things that you would be ashamed of and your family is ashamed of. They lose trust and respect in you and when your wife or husband doesn’t respect you it causes problems in marriage. The other problem is that when you’re drunk or high on some drug, then you’re more likely to cheat on your spouse. You’re also more likely to be physically or verbally abusive because of lack of self-control. As a society, we end up with more cases of abuse as well. Alcohol and substance abuse cause a lot of problems in marriages. Of course Substance Abuse has wreaked havoc within our families, but there is hope. In this episode, we were so proud to have our father, Mr. Lament M. Thaba, courageously share his story of how he recovered from 42 years of alcoholism thanks to the grace of God. If our father can experience the kind of freedom he’s experiencing, then it can also happen to you. This episode started off with Mr. Thaba (Senior) sharing his testimony. We will attempt to give a few highlights and key points, but we hope you can make a plan to watch the show as his testimony is more powerful hearing him tell it. The key points were: He started drinking when he was 18 years old and struggled with this addiction until he was 60 – 42 years. During this time, he explained he actually got to a point he no longer wanted to drink. He could see it was destroying his family, wasting his money, preventing job promotions, making his friends and family lose respect, etc. However, despite what he intellectually knew, his body had become a slave to this addiction. He felt like he was a prisoner and didn’t know how to get out of this prison he had voluntarily walked into at age 18 when he was just playing around during his teenage years. He testified that several times along the journey he tried to stop drinking. A few times he would manage to stop for a few months or even once for 17 months, but in his mind he said he always had told himself, “I will just take a break for a little while.” Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 183

He never thought he had it in him to full out stop since the chains of alcoholism had now shaped his identity and his friendships. Finally, at age 60, he realized he could not fight this demon on his own and began to cry out to God. He shared how he didn’t even know how to pray but he just knew he needed a force stronger than him if he was going to kick this habit out of his life. As he began to surrender his life to God, he began to focus more on the joy and peace he was receiving from a personal relationship with God and his desire became less and less for alcohol. He testifies that once he finally completely stood before the Lord and claimed, “With your help, I will quit this time”, that by God’s grace he quit and never looked back. His last encouraging words were to tell people to speak life and vision into your life. Every other time he had tried to quit, he had said he was taking a break. This time he made a conscience decision to quit forever. Nowadays, he spends his weekends in Bible studies, church meetings, spending quality time with his wife and family. He is much happier now and we, his family, are happier too to finally have him join us as a sober father who is always present in our lives. God has totally healed our family in every way, and we owe all praise to Him! Q: How do you get rid of bad friends once you stop so they don’t pull you back? A: A wise pastor in the audience actually answered this question. Although time did not permit to show the whole episode, he had also shared that he had struggled and overcame alcohol addiction. His advice was to teach all your friends the word of God and share with them the new joy and freedom you have found in focusing on Jesus Christ instead of on the temporary high of a substance use. He testified that he had personally realized that those who are still deeply entrenched into that world of abuse will actually remove themselves from you. Others will follow you and your life will now be used to help others out of their addictions. The key is you are going to have to change your friends if they are not willing to change with you. You are going to have to change your social patterns. You will fall back into your old ways if you don’t radically change your environment and influencers. Mr. Thaba testified for example, that he has not gone into a bar since the day he stopped drinking. He developed new habits, friends and hobbies to fill his social time. Q: Mrs. Thaba was asked how she coped with 42 years of being married to an alcoholic. A: Again, we hope you can listen to her personally because we can’t share her story with the passion she had. Essentially, she said it was close to torture being married to a man who was physically present but not financially providing nor helping in any way with raising the children. She also tried to protect her kids, which meant she If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 184

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Substance Abuse suffered for decades alone. She dreaded weekends as he would leave and not return for 2 days. To the alcoholic, I hope you hear Mrs. Thaba’s testimony and really think hard about how much pain your “fun” nights out are causing your spouse and kids. Your actions are killing them inside. Please listen to her story and consider asking for help to leave this destructive addiction. We hope you don’t wait 42 years or until it is too late. Not everyone will be as patient as Mrs. Thaba. Is that drug/drink worth it to lose everything and everyone you value in your life? To the spouse who can relate with this story, may you hear that she prayed without ceasing and giving up for 42 years. There is hope. It might not be immediate, but when you see the two of them now, God has restored them completely! They are more in love now than ever. He treats Mrs. Thaba with complete respect and is an awesome and wonderful husband! God has answered many prayers to bring beauty of something that once was so ugly. God is a miracle working God like that! Don’t lose hope that God can work and bring new life no matter how bad things are right now. Q: A young man didn’t ask a question but rather made an astute observation we thought worth noting. He stated that the words “for better or for worse” are not always stressed when one enters the marital union. This testimony had been a wakeup call to him. A: Mrs. Thaba testified that it had not been easy, but something inside of her felt as much as he looked like he enjoyed his drinking, he was actually a prisoner in need of her to stand by his side. She was faithful to do that, and they both now are blessed because of that loyalty she gave him for decades. Couples, one thing to note, whether it is alcohol abuse or something else. Marriage is not always easy. We are not saying every spouse should stay with a spouse that is abusing a substance. There are certainly circumstances – especially when abuse and affairs are in the equation, where it might be best to leave. We pray God will give you wisdom to know what to do should you find yourself in this situation. But, we are saying that marriage is not always easy. When you got married, you promised to stick by that person through good times and bad times. Many couples miss out on tremendous opportunities to bond in a way deeper than they can imagine because they leave as soon as things get tough. Your spouse needs you, in good and in bad. If you can get through this trial together, we can assure you, you will both be extremely blessed! Q: Percy was asked, as a son growing up in that environment, how did you cope? A: Although my (Percy) mom tried to shield us from dad’s addiction, we quickly picked up on it. Kids pick up on more than you think. Dad would lose cell phones, Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 185

wreck cars, come home late, and we could hear the adults talking when these things happened. As I got older, I grew to hate and resent him. In fact, I felt the house was better when he wasn’t there because at least when he wasn’t around the house was at peace. I could tell my mom was suffering. We knew when there was no food in the house to eat that it meant dad had used the money that should have bought us food on alcohol. We knew and it hurt us badly. At the age of 15, a friend invited me to church. My family didn’t attend church, so I just went to have something fun to do. A message I heard struck me to my heart, and I realized I needed a Savior. I realized God loved me. I realized I had a heavenly Father who would NOT disappoint me as my earthly father had. I decided to give my life to Jesus Christ and ask him to make me new and change me from within so that my life was filled with love from above. His Spirit in my life changed me in every way. My grades went up. My friends changed. I became a leader in school and church. Honestly, there was so much joy, peace and newfound purpose that I decided to forget about dad. I told myself that was his problem. I wasn’t going to focus on the negative and allow him to pull me down. Two years later, when I was 17, and really enjoying a wonderful friendship with God, I thought I was doing well. However, a long talk with some church elders about my home life brought out some deep seeded anger. As I talked, I seethed discussing what I had endured. They realized I hated my father and had not forgiven him. My excuse was, “Why should I forgive him when he hadn’t changed and still hurt us every day with his drinking?” I felt he didn’t deserve that mercy! As we talked, they explained that holding on to the bitterness was actually robbing me more than I realized. I had an area of my mind which held negative thoughts. That meant I was captive to bitterness and hate, which meant that was an area of my life where love, light, and peace did NOT prevail. They challenged me to get EVERY part of me into LIGHT by letting go of those past hurts and moving on in freedom by forgiving my father. They challenged me to voice out this forgiveness. By the grace of God, not too long after, I had an opportunity to tell dad how badly his actions had hurt me. He listened. Looking back, I think he was so focused on himself and his own problems, he honestly had no idea how badly his actions were affecting me and my siblings. For the first time, it was like God gave me new eyes. I felt sorry for him. I could see that he hadn’t meant to hurt me. I could see he didn’t like who he was and wasn’t proud of the person that alcohol made him. I was filled with love and compassion and began praying faithfully that God would release him from the shackles of addiction. God gave me strength to respect him and treat him as my father giving him the honor due. My dad did not stop drinking until 19 years later after that talk, but I can tell you, once I forgave my father and released all those years of anger and hurt, I never held a grudge for those 19 years. I felt free. I felt love. I felt compassion. I grew to respect my father and see the good in him. I thank God for opening my eyes and blessing me with such a wonderful relationship with my father ever since that day at age 17 when God changed my perspective! If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 186

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Substance Abuse May I encourage any of you who have been hurt by someone you love to choose forgiveness? They have hurt you long enough. It is time to take that power from them to continue hurting you. By forgiving them, you are saying I will not allow my past pain to rob me of my future joy. My state of mind is MINE. My circumstances may not be something I can control but the way I respond to them and think about them is MINE TO CONTROL! The freedom found in forgiveness is like a heavy weight lifted off your chest. God is faithful to replace that place that held hurt for so many years with new life and fresh unimaginable joy if you are willing to let go and choose love. Q: How do family members deal with a loved one who is an addict? A: We have heard of Mrs. Thaba’s testimony how she faithfully stuck by Mr Thaba’s side loving and praying for him. Another audience member bravely shared her story that it actually took TOUGH LOVE for her to stop her addiction. Her family members were hurting when she ran out of money because of spending her money on alcohol. They didn’t want to see their “baby girl” go hungry or get kicked out because she couldn’t pay rent, so they bailed her out over and over again. Only when they stopped and she felt the reality of what her life had become did she hit rock bottom and finally seek help with a desire to stop. There is no wrong or right way to deal with a family member. We all deal with people in different manners knowing what is most effective for that person. It should be noted though that most of the times you need to not shield them from the consequences of their actions and let them suffer. We sometimes feel guilty if we choose this option, as if it isn’t loving to not help them. When I (Ashley) was growing up, many of my friends participated in underage drinking. Sometimes the police would be alerted that there was a party going on and would go and arrest everyone there. They would spend a night or longer in jail, perhaps do community service, or some even served time in juvenile detention centers when they were repeat offenders. Some parents used their connections to make sure their kids didn’t “suffer”. They felt that was the “loving” thing to do. My father is a lawyer and at one time was a judge in our town. He certainly knew the right people to call had he wanted to “pull some strings to protect his baby girl”. On the contrary, my parents were very clear to me. They did not care if people said they were bad parents. Their reputation wasn’t near as important as my future! They would rather me spend a night in jail than a lifetime in prison to addiction. They did not care if jail, community service, or whatever punishment I received was uncomfortable. They refused to shield me from the natural consequences of whatever actions I took. I would pay for my mistakes to learn that in real life substance abuse is dangerous and the effects are not pleasant. I never drank alcohol in my teenage years. I am not saying this was solely because of being scared of the law and my parents. They had raised me in such a way many Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 187

of those temporary “fixes” didn’t appeal to me. However, if there was even a temptation to try it, I knew they were not joking, and I wasn’t going to test my luck! Again, let us firmly say there is no right or wrong answer, but please let’s know that shielding people from the consequences of their actions doesn’t really help them and it certainly doesn’t help the loved one who is always picking up the pieces and trying to clean up someone else’s mess. Q: Why do people abuse substances? A: All of us are created beings. It is natural for us to desire joy in our lives. We were made to want that! In the absence of a relationship with our Creator Himself who knows how to perfectly put the key that fits into the hole in your heart that craves feelings of joy and love, we turn to temporary fixes. We know that they don’t work for the long term, but they provide a temporary relief from the pain, boredom or depression we feel in our lives. The Bible says in John 10:10 that the thief comes to steal, kill and destroy but God comes to give us an abundant life. Our prayer is that God would open your eyes to see that Satan is destroying you. When you hear that voice saying, “You need this drink. You need this to have fun. You need this to be loved. You need this to fit in. You need this to escape your problems.” That voice is from the enemy of your soul who is seeking to devour and destroy you. Ask God for wisdom and eyes to see the Truth of your situation. This substance does not in reality add joy, love nor peace to your life. This substances does not fix problems but rather adds to them! There is a God who longs to hold you in His arms, for you are his valued and precious creation. He knew you in your mother’s womb. He knows the hurt you have gone through and He is able to bring good out of all things for those who love Him. He has plans to prosper you and give you a bright future if you just trust in Him and seek Him first. He doesn’t condemn you. He isn’t mad that you messed up. He already paid your bill in full by sending His son to die for you. In drinking terms, imagine he is paying off your tab at the bar – fulfilling your debt and putting his arm around you and gently walking you home – away from those who seek to pull you into a life of destruction and pain. He created you to a life you are proud of not to feel enslaved to do things you will later be ashamed of. If God is speaking to you today and you feel you need a fresh start. Reach out! There are so many places you can go to find help. There are churches, rehabilitation centers, Alcoholic Anonymous, psychologists, counselors, government programs, etc. If you want help, we believe God will provide a way. And, even if you can’t find someone to help you personally, don’t let that be an excuse. In Mr. Thaba’s case, God gave him the strength and helped him as an individual without any formal intervention to leave that life behind. Everyone is different, but our point is start TODAY with a FRESH START! If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 188

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Substance Abuse A narcotics police officer in the audience made an important observation that we thought was worth noting. He stated that in their studies, they realized that many times the people who are abusing a substance were actually just lonely and wanting to be loved. He urged people to never give up on others and always find ways to show love. It cannot be underestimated how important love is in a person’s life. Q: What are you doing to make sure your children don’t get into substance abuse? A: We are very clear with them even now about the consequences of substance abuse. At the time of writing this, they are 7, 10, and 12. (For those of you doing the math, when we shot the children’s episode our firstborn daughter was 11. She has had a birthday since then.)  My point in telling you their ages is that they are still young. However, we role play with them and have done that for a long time. “What will you say if your friend offers you a drink? Why would you not want to take it? What if they say it will taste good and make you feel good?” We also explain that many times people become addicts accidentally. They honestly thought they would just try it this “one time”, then one time became two times… and before they knew it, even when they wanted to stop, their bodies were addicted. We also explain to them and role play what to do if someone comes up to them that doesn’t know them and offers them something, especially candy, as we realize drug dealers now even lace children’s candy with drugs to unknowingly get them addicted. We talk about the temporary pleasure but the fact that when that wears off, you may have done some things you were not proud of and you may not even remember! You might have thrown up all over your clothes and even fell asleep in your own stinky vomit! (We make it vivid and real to help them to know the reality!) You might spend hard earned money all in one night or when you are drunk/high someone might take your money, and you won’t even remember. We really try and paint a picture to help them know that this is not a game and you shouldn’t play with it. Percy is passionate when he tells them how badly alcohol can RUIN a life because he lived it first hand for most of his life! I (Ashley) also share with them very honestly that when I made choices to not drink that some of my friends made fun of me. By choosing to not do what everyone else was doing, it wasn’t always comfortable as a teenager. As years passed, many that did what “everyone else was doing” lived to regret it. Many came back to me in my 20s saying they wished they would have remained pure and not put so much junk into their bodies. For some of them, by the time they had those regrets, they had really wrecked their lives and had done irreparable damage. That is what we TELL our kids, but like the observant police officer noted, another powerful strategy is to show them so much love and spend so much time with them Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 189

that they value themselves. They are self-confident. They aren’t out seeking love outside their homes. They are very securely loved within the safety of their homes. You cannot imagine the good you are doing your child by spending time with them, listening to their stories, assuring them of your love, giving them hugs and kisses, sharing life with them, and teaching them good moral principles that will guide them in the straight and narrow path. So many people who go out LOOKING to get high/drunk are actually trying to escape a bad home environment or just trying to find someone who will care about them. LOVE them while they are young BEFORE that temptation to seek that love drives them into the attention of someone looking to guide them into a path of darkness. Q: Percy and Ashley, this show has been so unique and helpful to the country. What led you to do something like this? A: As a society, many times we pour a lot of money and attention into the “fruit” of issues. Fatherless homes, substance abuse, domestic abuse, high divorce rates, disrespectful entitled youth, etc. We felt it was time to spend some energy into looking at the ROOT cause of many of the social ills plaguing our society – the unhealthy family unit. Our family is by no means perfect! We have tried our best to show you that through these 13 episodes. However, we have experienced the healing hand of God, and His word has given us great guidance to a truly happy life. We didn’t open up our home because we thought we were perfect. We opened up our home and became vulnerable by sharing our story because we wanted our lives to testify to the glory of God and the reality of love, peace and joy His presence can bring into two people who are willing to surrender their selfish will to saying God can be in control. We are convinced at our core that God can do the same thing for your family as He has done for ours! We have tried to be as honest as possible about the good and the bad and hope you have learned a thing or two from our journey and pray that you have been encouraged. We pray every day that this show will be a tool God uses to heal, restore, and revive marriages all over the world! We firmly believe that healthy families lead to healthy people and healthy people lead to healthier nations! This show wasn’t produced just to entertain you, but to transform our nations and our entire cultures in a positive way. If it does, we can assure you, we were simply ambassadors and witnesses to what God can do. We will take no glory in that. We know who we would be were it not for the love of God and the wisdom His Holy Spirit has given us to make choices that have led us to this point and down this path. If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 190

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Substance Abuse Below are questions for YOU to do either alone or with your spouse to help you deal more deeply with this issue of Substance Abuse. Q: How did this show impact you? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: This was episode 13, the last in the series. Throughout these shows, you might have made assumptions that Percy was joyful and happy because he hasn’t experienced the pain you might have in your life. How did it help you to understand that Percy didn’t allow his bad past to define and take away his opportunity for a bright future? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: What do you think is the best way to deal with a loved one who is abusing a substance? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Do you feel the church or society should have a specific role in dealing with addicts? IF so, what is that and do you play any role in that? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 191

__________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: What do you think it means “for better or for worse” in marriage? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Do you think you could endure something that bad for 42 years? Why or why not? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Write down how Mr. Thaba’s testimony made you feel. Is there a habit that you need to kick in your life and you have felt powerless to do so? Does his story give you hope that with the power of Jesus Christ, you can do all things? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: What types of talks have you had with your children about substance abuse? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 192

Talking with the Thabas Marriage Workbook: Substance Abuse Q: Do you feel you are doing the best job possible to pour love into your children in such a way they don’t go looking for it outside the home? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: What did you think of the advice on relatives giving tough love to help a loved one overcome an addiction? Do you think that is practical advice? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Why do you think people abuse substances? Is there a solution? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Q: Did you take any lessons from this episode that have encouraged you in your marriage even if substance abuse might not be something you struggle with? __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ Copyrighted © unauthorized reproduction prohibited by law. 193

Works Cited New International Version. Biblica, 2011. BibleGateway.com, www.biblegateway.com/versions/New-International-Version-NIV-Bible/ Harley Jr., Willard F. His Needs, Her Needs. Baker Publishing Group. January 15, 2013. Dr. Chapman, Gary. The Five Love Languages. Northfield Publishing. January 1, 2015. Ezzo, Gary and Dr Bucknam, Robert M.D. On becoming Baby Wise. Hawksflight & Associates. February 1, 2012. If you didn't buy this book, you received it illegally. Please support us. Buy on our website: www.ashleythaba.com 194